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Agamemnon-class battleship

on Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:40 pm
Up until now, the ships I posted were my average, smallish-scale vessels- a gunboat and a frigate, respectively. The Agamemnon is a huge step up- at 1,207 meters long, it’s easily a battleship.

Spoiler:
Main view:


Bottom:


Front:


Rear:


Bird's eye:

As usual, I’m going to kick off this thing with my description from the creation lab (once again, non-canon):

Past me wrote:Comissioned to be to the PCG what [Talmid’s Generations-class was]  to starfleet, The PCG's anti-starship ace-in-the-hole, a fortitude of advanced armor, sensors, and weapons, introducing the Agamemnon class battlecruiser! Armed to the teeth with torpedoes and phasers, the Agememnon class is ready to take the fight to the enemy! Wonderfully versitile, the Agememnon can be used as an escort, fast attack cruiser, exploration ship, and more! The Agememnon was built during the Kligon/Pheonix wars. The PCG had faced defeat after defeat. Their supercruisers and other large craft were falling victim to the smaller, cheaper, more manuverable Klingon ships. Thusly, smaller cruisers became more important. Thusly, the Agamemnon. The tide of the war practicly changed overnight thanks to this ship.

...Wow, that’s a lot of typos. Razz And a very OP ship, considering it wasn’t much larger than a destroyer. It's still kinda OP, but 'm working on it. Razz

   The Agamemnon is a somewhat different approach to battleship design. Instead of being a case where the shipwrights attach as many guns as possible to the hull (or at least as many as the budget allows), the Agamemnon is more of a large, armored Command-and-control vessel. Though certainly powerful in it’s own right, the Agamemnon is designed to be the nucleus of smaller fleets that couldn’t get their hands on dreadnoughts proper, which are usually the vessels to act as fleet CnC ships. As a result, it packs advanced communications arrays, powerful computers, large-scale fire-control systems, and a large observation deck capable of coordinating small fleets on it’s own, without the assistance of a normal CnC craft. Agamemnons are also often used to supplement the CnC capabilities of larger fleets, making them a common sight among important task forces. It also sports many large hangar bays, allowing it to carry a large complement of strike craft  This is bolstered by the fact that the observation post has it’s own hangar which stores all the vessels’ shuttles, allowing additional space to go to other craft.
  When first proposed, the Agamemnon caused somewhat of a schism in the PCG ranks. Some fully supported the idea, on the basis that it would provide a vessel for lower-ranking PCG commanders to move up, as well as provide support functions to the major fleets while still providing withering firepower. Other argued that resources were better spent on “true” battleship, whose only purpose was to hunt down and destroy enemy battleships. they also said that the ship would end up generalizing and be ineffective at both roles. They were wrong on both accounts, but only because sacrifices were made. The project ended up going overbudget several times. Even when it was completed, the crew conditions were extremely spartan, and the ship somewhat skimped in areas like medbays and rec rooms. There were also some major efficiency issues, especially pertaining to the warp drive (although most of these bugs were eventually ironed out).
   I must say, this isn’t my best. I hate how the front of the saucer turned out; too flat on the tip (hence the stupid-looking diagonal pieces on the front), and the edges were too sharp. I also really don’t like the front of the warp nacelle, although I feel the rest of it came out decently. One problem I repeatedly faced with the ship was that the general design just looked boring on a ship this size, which necessitated the roll bar , observation post, etc. I also would’ve liked to have added some more… well, anything really… to the engineering section in the middle- it has the two railguns, plus the deflector dish on the front, and that’s about it; I would’ve liked to have the connector to the engineering hull shorter, but I wanted it to see over (well, technically under) the aforementioned engineering section.
  Speaking of the observation tower, how do you all like it? It’s sort of a command-coordination center, with it’s own hangar on the bottom. The idea is that the ship commander would lead from the bridge, and the fleet commander would be in the tower with his subordinates, plotting strategy or whatever in real-time.

Spoiler:

Say what you want; I like it.

I might post more later, but for now: Stats!

Stats:
-Armaments*: 97 phaser banks, 31 forward-facing torpedo tubes, 8 rear-facing torpedo tubes, 93 phaser arrays, 6 forward-facing torpedo banks, 5 rear-facing torpedo banks, 1 isokinetic cannon, 19 railguns, 5 hypervoltac cannons, 21 quantum phasers, 10 phaser cannons
-Shielding: 2 navigational shields, 82 combat shielding generators stationed throughout the ship.
-Dimensions: 1207 meters long, 638 meters wide, 210 meters tall
-Armor: Average 3 inches ablative, .5 inches neutronium; up to twice that in important areas, such as the strut that connects the observation post to the ship.
-Impulse: 3 small hyperpulse thrusters, 1 large hyperpulse thruster.
-Warp: Dual Columbo-type nacelles; MCW: 5.7; MEW: 9.3, sustainable for three days
-Crew: 204 officers, 968 crew, 150 pilots, 70 marines
-Strike Craft: Five full squadrons of Battleaxe fighters; two squadrons of Eagle fighter-bombers; Three squadrons of Stallion bombers; eight Valkyrie shuttles; two Hercules shuttles
-Classification: PCBS
-Sensors: Advanced package, range of 3 AU; Fire-control grid, range 800,000 kilometers


.lxf link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gps77v4rsinppvj/PCG%20Agamemnon%20PCBS.lxf

Well, I can’t think of anything else to really say at the moment. Razz Comment, criticism, and suggestions welcome!



*Much of this will probably change when I refit this again, considering how OP it is. Heck, I might not even wait that long!


Last edited by Tetrahedron on Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spacing and other such nice formatting things. =P)

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Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:56 pm
Wow, great ship, Mightyman! The unorthodox design is excellent. I like the design outline of the red and blue pieces. Reminds me somewhat of Dino's St. George. The nacelles fit the ship perfectly, IMO, and the nacelle pylons also fit it well. Good work on the saucer and main body of the ship, too.

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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:21 pm
That looks great! The shapes of the "saucer" parts are very original. And, as Scare pointed out, the nacelles are perfect for this ship. I also really like the rear raised saucer bit. It looks kinda like a spoiler. Razz

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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:12 pm
Scare- Thanks! I sorta see the St. George now that you mention it, although it wasn't what I was going for (not that I'm complaining about the comparison, mind you. Razz ) Yeah, the highlights are probably my second favorite part, after the nacelles (the SNOT came out really good IMHO; it's just that the Bussard collector was too small in proportion, which is the part I dislike).

Spud- True, it's original, but the edges just curve too sharply at the front for my tastes; I'll probably end up smoothing it out. The "rear saucer" is called a roll bar (it's the same thing the Miranda class had at the back, just upscaled). Never thought of it as a spoiler, which is surprising now that you point it out. Razz

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:15 pm
Nice ship! I really like the nacelles though. As Scare pointed out, the nacelles' size fits the ship's size. As usual, I don't see it's "OP-ness" but that's just because all of my ships are massively OP. Razz I love the royal blue, crimson, slight yellow, mostly stone grey color scheme; it really fits well together, especially how you added the detailing. I agree with you about the front nose thingy, but the saucer looks perfectly fine IMO. Wink
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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:06 pm
PXR- Thanks! Yeah, it's one of the few color schemes that has more than a few colors and yet still blends well, so it's sorta my go-to color scheme.

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:17 pm
This is a very good ship, Mightyman! The multi-tier design is interesting, and it's a really interesting (in a good way) blend of both orthodox and unorthodox styles. The colors were chosen well, and the patterns made with the dark reds and blue on the top and bottom and a fun, interesting flair to it. Overall, I really like it, with only a few minor critiques:

1. I would not make the observation tower a central command hub. The connector is not that thick, and a few well-placed shots could sever it from the ship. Maybe it could just be a recreational part of the ship?

2. It all seems a little thin for me. Put some meat on those bones! Razz


Last edited by Kojan Altis Riktan on Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:42 pm
Kojan- Actually, the connection strut is pretty much the most well-armored place on the ship, barring the bridges/command hub itself. Razz

Also, can you define what you meatn by "little thing" (you know, nacelle pylons, roll bar, ship in general)?

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:48 pm
Ah, sorry, I had a typo; I meant "thin", not "thing". The ship seems a little thin. Razz

As for the connector strut, I still feel uneasy about having such a thin part of the ship lead to such a vital structure, even if it is well-armored. Personally, I'd keep all vital operations in the inner-most part of the ship, where it's safest (with the exception of the bridge).
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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:22 am
Woohoo, I like it a lot! Very Happy If it were a Federation ship I'd classify it as a Heavy Cruiser, as it doesn't look to me as being strong enough to be a battleship, probably because its hull doesn't appear very thick.  It reminds me a bit of the Excelsior Class in the Dominion War.  The Excelsior had strong weapons and could appear in numbers, but wasn't the most maneuverable and not the most defended....

However, it was because of the Excelsior's strength in numbers and in speed that lead to the Federation's victory.
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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:45 am
Kojan- Yeah, I get that; normally, I would agree with you, but I needed something for the back of the ship, and wanted to add an observation post- but the engineering pod near the middle was in the way, and I wanted to give it a full field of view. =/ It's only that long because of said pod.

That being said, I'm already beginning to think-out a refit which would solve both you complaints...

Talmid- I actually wanted it to be a heavy cruiser originally, but it ended up being much bigger than I expected- and at 1207 meters long, it was well into the battleship range according to PACS. If not for size, I would agree.

Also, why does everyone keep saying it isn't thick enough? I actually feel the saucer is a bit too thick...

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:52 am
I'll be honest, I didn't like this ship at first look, but it's growing on me. I do stil have some critques though. Razz

1. The yellow, it would look so much better without the yellow bits. I think that's one of the things that threw me off right away.

2. As you have already noted, there are still some design issues that need to be ironed out. I understand that can be hard to do, so just keep trying. Personally I actually like the front, but it doesn't seem to flow that well with the rest of the ship, and the entire top-down/bottom-up views don't look good IMO. I also like having all the different bits sticking up/down, the "rollbar" and other command post type things., although form a realistic point of view I do agree with Kojan. (the age old question, "to look good or to function well." Razz )

3. I think the naccles need to be bigger, deffinitly thicker and then maybe a little longer to compensate for the thickness, so they look more powerful to go with the rest of the ship without looking like stubby little sausages. The beautiful sleek design of the naccles also doesn't seem to go that well with the rather powerful looking, bulky ship shape. On one of Johnnyred's much smoother sleeker type ships, I think they would work well, but with this style, I think they should look a bit rougher/bulkier/raw power feel to go with the rest of the ship.

4. Technically this should be a supercruiser, compared to the Argo, St. George, Patriarch, Empress, and the Hazeroth (which I think is the smallest supercruiser from the lab/forum.) Maybe it's a battleship based on your categorizing system, I forget what size-wise things where in there, but as far as other supercruisers I've seen go, this would be one.

5. I do love the CnC focuses idea, though it's rather big to have just floating around supporting smaller fleets with younger commanders. Really it looks more like something that would be called in for to head up a much larger fleet/taskforce comprised already of several dreadnoughts/supercruisers, not just to support them, but to lead them all while the others fight. I still like the idea of a CnC ship for smaller taskforces/fleets with less firepower, but it should probably be a smaller ship. It'ld get too expensive alone to build enough of these for all those smaller,, missions, and jsut seems to powerful to waste on that.

6. The saucer is not too thick, I think it's pretty close to perfect, the rear atleast is. I might make the front a bit thicker.... Razz Just a bit.

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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:32 am
Ant-
-Without the yellow the ship just looks a bit drab IMO (although I agree I may have overdone is a bit near the back).

-Yeah, I plan on completely redoing the saucer, so that *should* mostly get fixed. The main reason I added the roll bar and whatnot is because the ship just looked boring without'em. Razz

-I disagree, I like'em as-is; then again, now that you point it out, I do feel that the rest of the ship should be bulky and industrial to match the feel.

-Yeah, all my ships have a 1:9.5 Studs:meters ratio, which places this well in the middle of the battleship range.

-Well, I don't mean every commander of a gunboat squadron has one; the fleets they're usually distributed to usually already have some cruisers and lighter battleships, so it's not like we're giving'em away to every other officer who asks. Razz

-It's not that it's too thick; is that it goes right to 5-plates-thick without any buildup.

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:13 am
I think the reason we (at least I) think it's not thick is because of the ship's "flat" shape. Most Star Fleet ships are designed with a saucer on top of a secondary hull which makes them tall and gives them a sense of "in your face" brashness and stuff from all three planes, x y and z.

Okay that probably sounded very strange. So, I know the Agamemnon isn't thin, but the height of the hull is thin in comparison to its length. Its length is 1200 meters long, but its height is only... I don't know, a lot less. So it seems thin but only in comparison. I think that's where the hull-not-being-thick idea comes from...
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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:02 pm
Oh, yeah... from bottom-to-top, it's 210 meters, placing it in a... roughly 6:1 ratio, maybe a little less. That's way higher than most Starfleet vessels. Plus, that number is from the bottom of the command pod (the lowest point) to the top of the roll bar (the highest).

So it's pretty short, compared to how wide it is. Interesting.

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:16 pm
@Mightyman: Techincally everything's supposed to be a 1:10 stud:meter ratio. Razz And I still think it belongs only in the largest/most important fleets/tactical outings. You've inspired me to build a smaller ship for smaller groups though. Razz

And it looks just plain ugly with the yellow! Razz Too much mixing with the light grey, blue, and red. I would just add more red/and or blue and take out the yellow, it just really doesn't go well, or take out the blue and add alot more red and see if that works (sorta like what kojan does), if you do that, maybe make it a dark grey, or something, but it really looks ehh right now. Razz

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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:10 pm
Ant- Yeah, I was gonna use 1:10, but that made the Garand ~410 meters long, which I felt was somewhat excessive for a basic frigate.

Say what you want; I like the yellow. Razz

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:40 pm
Speaking of yellow... I think I'm the only person who likes yellow Corvettes. Razz

I also like using yellow for hanger interiors on my ships....
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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:02 pm
@Talmid: Not the only one! Razz
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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:03 pm
I like it! I still don't like or adhere to our semi mandatory 1 stud = 10 meter scale because at least half of us didn't even use it until it was decided that it would make things "easier" somehow... but I digress.

That is one nice ship! It makes me think of the Klingon Negh'var class. A very nice look, not very traditional Federation, but still awesome! Well done!

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Re: Agamemnon-class battleship

on Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:00 pm
@talmid: I don't like yellow anything, with the sole exception being yellow diablo SV's, and the only white cars I like are brand new white corvettes with a black spoiler and some red highlights. And no orange...just none. Razz

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