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PCG Unsung Heros - The Fighting Dreamers Discussion Topic

on Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:03 am
This is where all discussion for Johnnyred's PCG Unsung Heros - The Fighting Dreamers RP happens.

Continued from Dino and I's discussion on his character.

Commander Ant wrote:And people call my stuff OP! Seriously, sprint 100mph?......Especially with the ecoskeleton, he should not be able to do that, it would give him strength but hardly make him faster, and for a simple PCG body-suit that's rather protected.

I like your character and love his tactial outfitting, but some of it seems over the top to me.... I would cut the body glove down to 50% strength increase (he should be able to bench 200 by himself anyways), and keep the exoskeleton's strength, but have it lower the speed. I would put the 20mph as the body-glove PLUS his speed, not the body glove's seperate and then add his speed in, as that's pretty darn fast to run and I don't really see how the bodyglove would help him run faster anyways, other than giving him stronger leaps in his strides which is only part of running. Take it from someone who's run short distance sprints for a few years. Wink Now it oculd help his stamina at running longer at a higher than normal speed (7 minute miles with weight instead of 10 or more minute miles with weight in a 25 mile run or something.)

Weapons, like them, grenades, seems like alot, but I can see them taking place of extra mags, especially if he's carrying the energy weapons instead, shielding? Seems a bit much, a few too many on some.

Character bio? Love it.

Dino wrote:You do realize we're 600 years in the future, right? Tech has advanced... a LOT. It's a wearable vehicle. His legs (with the suit) are pushing (in a straight line) with FAR greater force than a human without such a suit. It's not running in the traditional sense, he is basically "jumping" forward. With every step/jump, he is throwing himself forward with INCREDIBLE force. The suit's weighs only several hundred pounds, but it has more power output than a modern jet engine. And it isn't only about the strength, it also features rocket boots and motion accelerator tech, so it's technically possible to achieve such extreme speed.

Bodyglove speed and strength... hmmm... I'm somewhat inclined to agree... I must think on it...

Weaponry: he only carries a sidearm, a primary, and one blade, (+ grenades,) hardly excessive at any one time. The other items are part of his personal arsenal that stays on the ship.

Grenades: you find a suit that can bench 1,100 pounds reasonable, but you find said suit carrying 12 grenades excessive? I fail to see the logic in this. Razz

Shielding: A modern carrier plate can take multiple rifle rounds, and yet a 600 year in the future shield that can take multiple high kill setting blasts his excessive? I'm not talking about it talking artillery fire, or a photon torpedo, just anti personnel fire.

Armor: the suit's armor is so good because of the ablative armor coating, when used on a starship, it's like a second shielding system, so the same applies here.

The suit is like a wearable mini-shuttle. A personal shuttle or jeep type vehicle could go WAY faster, hit a lot harder, take way more damage, and cost a similar amount. (More for raw materials, but similar for the suit's complicated tech)

I will consider your suggestions though.... I need to sleep on it. I'm not aiming for OP, just powerful enough to be nastily effective. Thanks for pointing your thoughts out though. Smile I appreciate it.

Commander Ant wrote:Yes yes yes, I realize we're far into the future, but I dont' think things advanced quite like you tihnk they did. Razz

Even with jumping, it's moving a pretty darn heavy suit, and even when he lands, his feet have to move extremely quickly. While machinery may be capable of this, his legs arn't. They still have to move inside the machine and he will be run to death by it, even if he's not making any effort to push against the ground to move, the machine moving and moving his legs faster than his humanly possible is going to destroy him. Kinda like if you've ever had a bycicle where if you petal backwards it brakes, not your standard bicyle. If you're going down hill, the pedals will begin to go faster than your legs can, even though it takes your legs no effort to actually pedal. If you try to keep them pedaling, you will feel the effort, trust me, I've tried a few times. Eventaully you can't keep up at all and the pedals go faster than your legs will and your feet slip off. (Hopefully you arn't going down hill or inot something at this point and you can coast back down to a reasonable speed). However, inside a machine, not happening. At the same time, even if this was possible, 100 mile an hour is still really extreme. 30-40? Maaaaybe....but that would still burn your legs out and you wouldn't ahve them for long. Rocket boots would mostly likely flip him upside down in all realism, motion accellerator tech is possible, and the power output of a modern jet engine? Even six-hundred years into teh future, I find that rather hard to believe. Razz I think that even with 600 years into the future, we would discover problems that we didn't even know existed (new physics laws, new situations where things happen, whatever) in making tech like this that would slow down progress on several sorts of things tremendously. So while we would still be extremely advanced compared to modern day, it might not look like it quite like you might think. For example, hundreds of years later than modern day, the Federation and the Romulans, with full space transportation, where still using nuclear warheads to combat each other.

Weapons: I never complained about teh number, only teh number of grenades. I did say I liked the weapons (even if they're still too phaser/energy based for me.) Razz

Greandes: Yes, that's alot. not weight wise (especially with teh bodyglove, even if it only gave a 20 pound boost), but placement wise, you still only have so much surface area to fit extra magazines/powerpacks, first-aid equipment, grendaes, back-up radio (perhaps), and anything else oyu might carry, your radio and map thankfully are in your helemet, so that frees up a little space. Your modern soldier carries only one or two grenades. I could be mistaken, but I think that actually most soldiers don't carry any (I could be wrong). In a standard fireteam of four people, only the grenadier carries greandes, and I think the team leader will carry one or two as well, atleast some smoke grenades for marking LZs, enenmy positions, friendly positions, targets, whatever (lots of different colors). You could possibly do that with your helmet's HUD, but having smoke nades doens't hurt either, neither do flashbangs. Eitherway, with all the equipment fighitng for space on the outside of your suit, 14 grenades is quite a bit. I would just stick with 2 frags, 2 photon, maybe some C4-type explosive (obviously made from something more advanced than C4) in his back-pack or whatever for heavier demolitions, where he can change the amount based on what size explosion he needs and thus save some, and then maybe add a flashbang or two.

If you're outfitted liek this guy however, you have no problem carrying all those nades, but notice he's not carrying anything else except some shotgun rounds on his arm, and I'ld want a ton more shotgun rounds than that, especially if he's going to be in combat long, which he is, judging by the number of nades he's carrying:

Spoiler:

Shielding: modern plates (plate carriers hold body armor plates, and do not stop any rounds. Razz ) are capable of stopping anywhere from 3-6 7.62 NATO rounds, there are many more powerful rounds that they will not stop, and they may even penatrade on the first round. There is better body armor out there, but we're talking about standard issue stuff. Most Spec Forces as I understand it do without, perfering mobility to a bunch of weight and bulkiness slowing them down and sticking out. Now I'm wasn't complaining about the stopping power of the shields (I'ld hope it stops ALTEAST 6 shots Razz ), but merely the number of shield emmitters. I would keep it at one on teh exoskelton and a smaller, weaker one on the back of the body glove, more of the level of your iron skin one, whose material may be capable of lessening a phaser blast but not actually having a shield, same with the body glove.

The actual armor I have no complaint with except for two things. If I read correctly, the armor only stops 2 pahser blasts at power 14 setting. I would think it would stop alot more (with, on personel, shielding generally being weaker than armor and probably better for absorbing splash damage/protecting against shrapnel, though still capable of stopping a few direct hits. On ships capable of fielding much stronger shield generators but needing a bigger armor bulk I see it as working the other way. At some point in time on the size-scale I see shields becoming better than armor as you go up in size, probably somewhere in the shuttle/large shuttle/small frieghtor range it becomes better. Second thing is that all that armor adds extra bulk, which even with a powered suit, reduces manuverability/agility, adds extra weight to be carried on an already heavy/bulky suit, and will eventually wear off (that's what ablative armor is), some sort of non-ablative armor might work just as well and not wear out so quickly. I don't doubt that it can carry the armor, but it increases it's size like I said and weight still is an issue. Even with as much strength as it provides, it still has to carry how much it weighs and then some (the person, the equipment) before it can provide extra lifting power for throwing cars, lugging extra ammo for others, smashing through walls, or whatever.

I wouldn't quite say a wearable shuttle, more like a wearable four-wheeler. Razz

Still like it over all, just trying to help.

And if it helps at all, he's supposed to be just an enlisted Marine right? Possibly some special group might have super stuff liek that, but as awesome (or possible) as it is, the regular Marines arn't going to get it all due to costs and what not. For example, SCARs arn't even the most advanced/best rifle for war, but they're much better than what our regular soldiers use, they use old M4s and M16s. They don't always get thermal imaging systems (sometimes they do) or NVGs, they don't get the absolute best optics, some of them are still riding around in HUMVEES even though we have MRAPS that are much better, or even IFVs. Just something to keep in mind, so even if such a suit was possible, I think most PCG Marines arn't even going to get a bodyglove, but maybe they do, I could be wrong, I'm pretty sure they don't get the exoskeleton though. Razz

@Dino: And I'm not even going to go into your new character and why computers can never feel, modify their own programming like that, or be smarter than their designers, merely more accurate. I'll just let that one go. Razz ....Must....resist........urge to......make.....everything....realistic...... Razz

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Arik wrote:Sadly, it's a doomed attempt. The Illuminati infiltrated the US government before it even was the US government,
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Re: PCG Unsung Heros - The Fighting Dreamers Discussion Topic

on Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:56 am
And aren't WE just programmed? Are not we created to be who we are? To have free choice? And if a computer can be programmed to THINK that it has emotion, that it has free will, at what point does the illusion stop? Plus, holograms and androids as living things roughly equal with other characters is Trek canan. Razz So your character can doubt her life, it'll add interest. Smile

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Re: PCG Unsung Heros - The Fighting Dreamers Discussion Topic

on Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:32 am
I did say I wasn't going to go into all that, in character or out of character.....don't tempt me. Razz

But no, WE are not just programmed, which is why WE are not just computers. I have have this disussion with you on AI versus true humanity at some point, but aaaaahm lazy now and don't feel like destroying your character, as I think, unrealistic or not, she'll be interesting. And I also noted that in ST canon, androids are roughly equal with living things, another reason why I decided not to go into it. Razz

She does seem to also be a little OP though, if, other than doubt, she could have some other sort of flaw/inability to balance her out or something that might be helpful, or J-red might just nerf her, IDK.

And I noticed you didn't reply to anything I said about your Marine. Razz

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Arik wrote:Sadly, it's a doomed attempt. The Illuminati infiltrated the US government before it even was the US government,
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Re: PCG Unsung Heros - The Fighting Dreamers Discussion Topic

on Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:51 pm
But aren't we created to be who we are? And given that God is sovereign, and yet we have free will... living machines is a pretty complicated thing that we're never really going to be able to answer.

That's her species. Holograms are canon Trek, and subroutines can be added to allow them to do just about anything. Her fighter can still be shot down. Even if she makes zero mistakes, sometimes there is no way to win. Her holomatrix can be destroyed, although by somewhat different means to ordinary humans' bodies. She won't really be in hand to hand/ground combat much, but if she is, one Borg drone can take her down with its assimilation tubes. Unlike organics, if captured, she can be hacked. She depends on holo emitters to survive, without her mobile emitter, if her cap ship is damaged, she is dead with no way to come back. She is "superior" to organics in many ways, but her physical abilities can be achieved by normal organics through genetic augmentation, and a good part of her piloting ability can be achieved through a neural interface. She's good, but she is not invincible, invulnerable, or immortal. She can be deceived. She can change sides. She can fail. She can be defeated. She can be destroyed.  She can die, just like humans.


And I did answer what you said and edited Auther with updates and some answers. Wink

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Re: PCG Unsung Heros - The Fighting Dreamers Discussion Topic

on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:44 pm
Like I said, I'll tell you how wrong you are (about your second characer) at some other point. Razz (Because I know that I'm right. Razz )

As for Arthur, the body-glove+exoskelton working together to get a higher speed would help no more than me turning a hand crank on a fast spinning motor would to make the overall speed faster. In addition to that, your body might be able to take 30 if the machine is doing most of the work and you where properly condition. But his legs, even with inertial dampeners, still have to move at 30mph even if they're not providing teh power to jump super far. Thus the body-glove+exoskelton suit=50mph is still going to kill his legs. Inertial dampeners work when you have some free movement in a box, they don't keep your feet latched inside of skin-tight armor from moving just as fast as that armor is, or your inertial dampeners would rip your leg out through the suit and leave it behind (because it's not moving as fast). Those are my last two complaints, only.

Except he still has an aweful lot of suits for a standard marine....... Razz

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Arik wrote:Sadly, it's a doomed attempt. The Illuminati infiltrated the US government before it even was the US government,
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Re: PCG Unsung Heros - The Fighting Dreamers Discussion Topic

on Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:03 pm
We're just gonna have to disagree on artificial life, because we both know we are right. Razz


The bodyglove doesn't help his run speed in the updated version, and (in case you didn't see,) I dropped the total sprint speed to 50 mph  Smile

The hardsuit + bodyglove is roughly 470% stronger than a normal human, he is the hand crank, the suit is the engine by comparison. Razz


Don't think of a man running, think of a kangaroo with its legs moving separately. His legs aren't alternating positions at extreme speed.
1 He sets one foot down HARD, launching himself forward with the combined strength of the suit and the motion accelerators.
2 He brings his foot, not the one he used to launch himself forward, in front of his body while in midair.
3 He activates the rocket boots (one behind, the other, at a different, lesser setting, out in front, allowing him to stay airborne and in forward motion for considerably longer)
4 He lands on his forward facing foot, ~25-35 feet forward of his last step (remember, it's not just the power of the suit, which is considerable, but working against the weight, it's also lev-boot assisted.)
5 He repeats step 1, but with the foot he landed on.

(Hmmm Trek has anti-grav tech, which has been available for 300 years or more... by adding that, it would be possible to negate the mass of the suit while leaping... I think I might just use that...)

It's almost like a moonwalk. But very fast. He doesn't NEED to move his legs that fast, his own natural speed of movement is enhanced via the sheer power behind each step. And the inertial dampeners can be of great help as it's not about his legs moving too fast, but absorbing shock.



As to the number of suits, he only has 2 full "outfits"

1:
Bodyglove = layer 1 of the JX-53 combat armor. It is basically there to protect any gaps in the plate armor, and to allow the wearer to drag himself to semi-safety if the hardsuit loses power.

Hardsuit = layer 2 of the JX-53 combat armor. It is the real outer hide of the armor.


2:
IronSkin is essentially a very high tech set of combat fatigues, (with limited protection, but it is not dedicated combat armor.) It is (my take on) the standard Star Quest Marine uniform.

Beam vest + beam helmet (moderate protection dedicated armor worn on top of the IronSkin suit when combat is expected but the JX-53 is not an option. Is the standard breathable atmosphere armor (of my outfitting of the) Star Quest Marines.


So he has a hardsuit, (takes a long time to put on) a uniform, (worn whenever on duty but not going into situations that people are shooting at you) and a flak-jacket and combat helmet. (Added to the basic uniform when there isn't time to change into heavy duty powered armor/when that armor was shot up on the last mission)




Edit: I added the anti-grav tech to the JX-53 combat armor, so it can realistically run at 50 miles per hour (it's not fighting against a lot of it's own weight)

I removed Jen's backup file. Now if she is destroyed while on her emitter, she is dead for good.

I removed Jen's ability to use her emitter to create weapons.

I noted the fact that she can be hacked if captured.

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Re: PCG Unsung Heros - The Fighting Dreamers Discussion Topic

on Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:26 pm
50+ mph leaping you have the problem of all that weight hitting the ground with tremendous force...over...and over....and over.....and over...and over again. You will quickly destroy the suit. A lighter suit would be fine, but not something that heavy. I liked the 30 mph.

Other than that, it looks good....I guess....I still think it's kinda OP, but you know, whatevs, your character. Razz

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Arik wrote:Sadly, it's a doomed attempt. The Illuminati infiltrated the US government before it even was the US government,
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Re: PCG Unsung Heros - The Fighting Dreamers Discussion Topic

on Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:49 pm
Ah, but with SUPER advanced materials (some Trek metals are much harder than diamond I believe, but not brittle) a structural integrity field, inertial dampeners, and now anti-grav, it's not going to wear TOO quickly. Some parts will need to be replaced pretty frequently if the wearer does a lot of all out sprinting, but replicators and engineers can handle that.

Yeah, kinda OP, but that is coming from the creator of the Atnlays Razz (not accusing, just noting that we are both guilty of OP-ness Razz )

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Re: PCG Unsung Heros - The Fighting Dreamers Discussion Topic

on Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:05 pm
Atnlays are supposed to have much more advanced tech, you're just PCG, a federation daughter group gone renagade. You guy's still use PHASERS for crying out loud! Razz

Antlays are supposed to be OP for story reasons, you're just going a bit rediculous IMO, especially, again, for a standard marine. This suit would be way to expensive and throwing all that shielding, inertial dampeners, AND a structural integrity field is way too much for just a suit, a large hardsuit? Possibly, but yeeeeaaaah......Razz

Honestly, if you want speed, you should just get a jet-pack (make ir like iron man, make it like Kojan's Marines, make it like Jango, whatever. Razz Jango would probably be more realistic, I have a hard time seeing them training every marine to fly somethign like Iron Man's suit, which would not be near as easy as the movies made it look. Razz )

AGain, for all it's strength, jumping that heavy suit that far off teh ground is going to be one big problem. Rocket boots may help, but it's still got to move fast enough to lauch itlself, not just need brute force (leg killer), I can use a ton of force, but if my legs move too slow when I kick, whatever I kicked isn't going very far, same idea here. You can have a powerful machine but it still has to move fast, which is rather unlikely with all this.

I'm imaginging something like this:
Spoiler:
In order to fit all the gear+generator+various field generators+strength, and that thing isn't going to move very fast. Razz

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Arik wrote:Sadly, it's a doomed attempt. The Illuminati infiltrated the US government before it even was the US government,
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Re: PCG Unsung Heros - The Fighting Dreamers Discussion Topic

on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:11 pm
The price is justified because it's a specialty boarding action suit, not standard issue, for when larger vehicles won't fit but you need some cover fire on the move.  

It's not even intended to be used for long term speed in-story Razz that's just the max, and still FAR slower than most vehicles
It's got a micro (very, very small) reactor on it, it can run it's anti-grav for over a week. So weight isn't an issue to it's speed, and it's SIF protects it from big jumps.



Would you be happy if I took the sprint speed down to 30 and we can just agree? Razz I hope so because I edited the suit (again Razz ) so that it can now only sprint at 30 mph for an hour before returning to the command ship. then it has to walk at a max speed of 15mph. Happy? Razz

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