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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:43 pm
Actually this is somewhat on-topic as it is helping me (and potentially others) by developing something that remotely represents an accurate minifigure scale to use when designing vehicles such as this aircraft, or any of my numerable tanks and other ground vehicles.

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:14 pm
Well then, since the topic owner considers it on topic, by all means continue. Smile


When I need to build something in minifig scale, I treat one stud as being one foot long. (Assuming that a minifigure is between 5 feet 6 inches and 6 feet 6 inches high, with 6 feet being the "normal" fig height, this works well for me personally. From there it's just converting to meters. The tricky part is, figs are twice as wide as they should be for their height, so building vehicles to scale can be very tricky, especially when you need to have figs sitting side by side in a car or truck that needs to be a sane size for their height.

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:57 pm
I think you and I share a similar scale, Dino. I usually go with 3 studs=1 meter (or at least I try to), which is just slightly larger than yours. I agree that they're too wide, mainly because of the arms I believe, but since I want it to be functional that means I have to live with it.

As for starships, if I do start trying to use LDD rather than a technical drawing/sketch (I love making technical sketches, actually) I've no idea what scale to use, depending on the level of detail I want...

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:17 am
I try to scale canon ships relative to the size of other canon ships. Embarassed So if I have a medium-sized Galaxy, every other ship will have to be smaller to be accurate....

Otherwise all my non-canon ships are built without scale in mind.
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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:34 pm
I pretty much do what Talmid does, except that I use my Sovereign class as my "standard" and it's ABOUT 1 stud = 12.5 meters, so my canon ships are built to this scale, or need to be updated to it. Razz My fanon ships end up being whatever size they end up being, and then I just let them be whatever size that 1 stud = 12.5 meters has them be. Razz

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:08 pm
Generally, for miniscale ships, I use 1 stud = 10 m, just because it's extremely simple. Might change it eventually to 12.5 m just so my ships aren't ending up tiny.

As for "normal" stuff, I don't have a scale. I remember Supe saying something like 1 stud = 0.35 m, which is basically the same as Jace's 3 studs = 1 meter. However, I would like someone to give me the "universal" scales for both miniscale and normal-scale so I can begin implementing them. Additionally, I would like to know ASAP since I just realized that the fighter complements are way too large for my ships, based on the hypothetical scales.
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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:48 am
Actually, a MODEL, intended to be the same size, will be larger when built to 1 stud = 10 meters, than a model built to 1 stud = 12 meters.
For example. You have two models of the same ship. That ship is supposed to be 120 meters long. Model A uses 1 stud = 12 meters, and is 10 studs long. Model B uses 1 stud = 10 meters, and is 12 studs long.

I made the same mistake, thinking that 1=12 would equal a bigger model, until I saw J-red's refitted canon ships, and did the math.

As for fighters and other minifig scaled vehicles, I simply don't know. I am not aware of ANY "official" scale for this... anywhere. As I said, I use 1 stud = 1 foot, and in meters, that would be 3.28084 studs per meter. So you can get as precise with that as you like. Personally, I would look at your existing minifig scale models, and divide their stud measurements by 3.28 to get their "correct" length in meters.

As for cap ships, although this sites "official" scale is 1 stud = 10 meters, this is NOT required. It is just a suggested length. So you can choose whatever scale you want, or build different ships at different scales for different purposes. It's up to you. I would SUGGEST using 1=10 to be pretty close to what the MAJORITY, or 1=12 to be pretty close to the large minority of active users build at.
But it's entirely up to you. Smile

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:13 am
*sigh* I don't know why anyone would build on anything other than 1:10 studs:meters ratio. Why would you build 1:12.5? Is it worth the difference if it makes your ships totally off-scale from everyone else's? 1:10 allows people to easily get an idea of how big a ship really is. That means starfighters would be approximately 1 stud (most fighters are 10-15 meters long), people can be easily pictured to scale with the ship itself, and basically EVERYTHING makes far more sense than building on another scale. Honestly, the idea of building on 1:12 or 1:9.5 or 1:13.589191 is ridiculous to me. It isn't a logical scale to use, and in a place where a lot of people are building starships, it's a bit ridiculous that we would all be building on our own scales, ESPECIALLY building to the scale of whatever starship we think is "perfect." Why WOULDN'T you build on 1:10?

Also, this is why I'm seriously considering trying out AutoCAD. It would give us an arbitrary scale since the modeling increment would be far finer than studs, which, though we use them well enough, are incredibly unwieldy.

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:52 pm
I don't personally consider the scale issue to be that massive; as Dino pointed out, you might be talking about five or six studs, max, on all but the larger ships Unless it's absurdly out of proportion (e.x. twice as long as a ship should be), I don't understand why it matters so much.

As for my using 1:9.5, that was just because 1:10 put my Garand-class past the 400-meter mark, which bothered me. I *could* start using 1:10 if it really annoys people- but, again, I don't get why it matters (also, I tend to do so pretty excessive rounding with the numbers anyway Razz).

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:17 pm
@Dino: I was referring to the IRL "model"'s dimensions, not the LDD one. Razz

Generally, I use 1 stud: 10 m out of laziness and its simplicity. TBCH, IDC what scale other people use, but it does annoy me somewhat, when people use a "larger" (in terms of IRL) scale, simply because it seems like the weapons and ship in general will be much larger.

A universal scale would be extremely helpful and appreciated though, simply so that individual models can be compared in terms of size without a bunch of calculations.

It's not exactly a problem, since individual PXE class dimensions are very different from those of other groups, and, additionally, different groups/manufacturers will have different "dimensional definitions" for different classes. Different classes can divide into subclasses which throws it off furthermore, so it doesn't really do much.

That being said, yes, different scales do bother me, but not to the point of extreme agitation. Razz
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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:45 pm
Those who argue for use of 1 stud = 10 meters as a universal PCG.com scale, you miss a key point: 1 stud = 10 meters is NOT our old, original scale. The MAJORITY of (active) users, back on the lab, (often unknowingly, simply aiming to have their canon ships roughly to scale with everyone else's work) built their ships to ISD scale. That is, to scale with the Lego Ultimate Collectors Series Imperial Star Destroyer set. Which is ABOUT 1 stud = 12.5 meters. Perfect Grade (1 stud = 10 meters) was only implemented as an official (but not required) scale more than FOUR YEARS after MOST PCG members (certainly not all) had already built HUNDREDS of ships at roughly 1 stud = 12.5 meters. There are certainly builders who didn't build "roughly to ISD scale", but I believe that the MAJORITY (of those who even were attempting to build at a scale at all) did build roughly to ISD scale. I personally refuse to make dozens upon dozens of MOCs, and five years/thousands of hours of work "obsolete" and "out of scale", so I continue to build at the scale that I have built to since I even worried about scale. Also, it's a plus to have my work to scale with an official Lego sci-fi set. (I did the math for it a while ago... but I'm tired now. Razz If my new, tired, math is correct, USD ISD scale is actually closer to 1 stud equals 13.5 meters... I'm work on it again later. Razz )

BUT, IF we did not have hundreds (if not thousands) of (very close to) ISD scale creations, made over five years, then I would STRONGLY CONSIDER that it would be wise to use 1 stud = 10 meters. But if you examine history, you will find that most of us DID build APPROXIMATELY to a common scale, but that scale was recently replaced. And frankly, I have yet to be convinced that it is truly better. Simpler for new creations to be quickly measured, yes, but ideal... well, let's just say that I like my new work to be in the same scale as my old work.

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:55 am
Thanks, Dino, I wasn't aware of that. But consider this-- would you ever, EVER put ships that old, obsolete in their technology and style even discounting the scale, in a battle, or story? Probably not, if you look at it objectively, though you might say "yes" just because this conversation has reminded you of them. All I'm saying is maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing to switch to the new scale and consider the REALLY old models obsolete, which they are anyway, purely because of their age and the way the PCG has changed since then.

Mightyman, I admit that I truly do not understand your 1:9.5 scale at all. If you round stuff anyway, then WHY? xD Why do you want that ship under 400 meters anyway? YOUR LIFE COULD BE SO SIMPLE. Razz

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:32 pm
I only round it to, at most, ~5 meters (usually more like 2 or 3); in other words, less than a single stud would account for. As for it being under 300 meters, it just fits in with ST canon a bit better (or something like that, I don't really remember Razz).

Now that this has come up, I may end up switching to 1:10 anyway, since I've just realized I don't really have a good reason. Razz Eh, maybe, maybe not. will have to see... Razz

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Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:32 pm
If you don't switch, you're doing it purely out of stubbornness. xD

Honestly, guys, I think that as the PCG moves forward, "ST canon" should matter less and less. We're our own group, and this isn't just a few guys making ST ships anymore-- it's not even just the PCG anymore. This is a whole universe we're coming up with, with its own history. If you want to base it in the ST universe, that's fine, but thanks to ST's love of alternate timelines, we can do ANYTHING we want to make this OUR universe. That may seem unrelated, but it isn't-- it means that we can have planets that weren't "ST canon," groups like Yaka and DI that arent' "ST canon," and it means that 200 meters is no longer a large starship. In fact, it's a rather small one around here. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't be held back by trying to conform to ST standards. If you want to build a Galaxy so it's the same size as the ST Galaxies, go right ahead, that's okay-- or, you could consider how this universe is DIFFERENT from the ST universe, decide how you think the Galaxy would be different with it, and build a PCG-verse version of it.

...

...and while you're at it, you can build in 1:10. xD

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:11 pm
*marvels at how this managed to get so out of hand.*

How does this always happen on my topics, to this extent?

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:26 pm
Jace- happens to everyone, though perhaps not as frequently. Razz

Supe- I'm actually considering keeping it 1:9.5, just to make it sort of a "Tetra" thing, if you know what I'm saying. Razz I use a calculator for the math anyway, and as I said, it doesn't make a huge difference....

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:28 pm
But...but... D:

GUYS I'M OCD YOU CAN'T DO THIS TO ME

They...must...be...the same! D:<

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:35 pm
{Resists urge to reply to off-topic discussion.]


Jace, should I as a mod, take this to mean that you would like me to... direct... everyone back on topic? Because I can do that. Twisted Evil Sneak Cool

[Gets out megaphone and water cannon.]

Seriously though, if you aren't happy with the conversation being off-topic in your topic, you've got every right to have the crowd herded into the chatbox/off topic area. Smile




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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:53 pm
No it's fine but like this is starting to seem like something that should be in a totally public, announced forum.

For the whole community to talk about this and have something very nicely packaged for reference. I know I've always wondered what scale to use, if I was going to use one.

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:00 pm
[puts away hose and megaphone]

As you wish, let me know if you want the room cleared. Wink

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:19 pm
We can always move it later; wouldn't be a terrible idea to have this conversation stickier when we're done...

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:02 pm
Alright. So from what I understand we've all pretty much agreed that "minifigure scale" is about 3 studs:1 yard/meter. "Starship scale," I suppose it would be called, is right now being "debated" as 1 stud:10/12.5 meters with one person using their own convoluted scale of 1 stud:9.5 meters. We also have a couple of folks thinking about using other CAD programs and using a pure 1:1 scale without any involvement of ill-proportioned minifigures.

The question now is should the PCG have an "official building scale" or general guidelines for scale to make all of our lives easier?

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:22 pm
Well, I think we decided awhile back that the "official," "standard" scale is 1:10, because it's so simple and a lot of people use it. A few people like Dino and Jred use different ones, scaled to their favorite ship or whatever reason they might have, but even those are at least close to 1:10, at least until you get to longer ships, but since they (or at least Dino) build almost entirely ST-styled ships, they don't get all that big anyway, so I don't think it's a huge deal. So, like I said, I believe the "standard" scale is 1:10. If you don't know what to build in, go with that; it'll make your models compatible with most other people's on the site. However, if you feel the urge to build in a different one, or just be stubborn like MM (Razz), go for it, as long as it isn't like 1:30 or something ridiculous like that. xD

Also, Dino, I hold to my argument that your older ships are outdated anyway, and as such you don't need to worry about what scale they were in. Razz

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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:05 am
^^^^^^^ I second that. You can use any scale, as long as it's near 1:10. Razz ^^^^^^^^

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: So...this is a thing I just did in a couple hours...

on Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:16 am
Alright then. Be aware that any technical sketches I'll be posting won't follow anything like that scale due to the limitations of paper size. Razz

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