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Lord Commandant (MSI)
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Proof of Concept

on Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:49 am
So, this is the cargo bay of the Deferat-class Attack Shuttle, the to-be main transport of the Marines. From a Platoon (or two) of Marines, to half a Company of commandos, or even a group of combat vehicles, this is intended to be the workhorse of the Corps.

But, at 3 studs:1 meter, I find myself in over my head, as it were, trying to fit the rest of the shuttle around the cargo bay I built. Therefore, I've got the proof of concept model - the cargo bay displaying its ability to carry (in this image) two Teams of commandos, three MUVs, and fourteen Orbital/High-Altitude Drop pods:
Shuttle Concept:

And here's the .LXF if anybody wants to see it in detail for whatever reason you might have.

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:20 pm
Very nice! My only problem is that all the commandos are standing; shouldn't they be strapped in somewhere? Or is this just for immediate deployment, and they sit somewhere else?

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:56 pm
Really that was just because standing minifigures, with backpacks and weapons in hand, take up the most amount of space as opposed to sitting 'figures with weapons racked next to them. But usually the Marines on board would either have seats (maybe not for the commandos, given the drop pods would be behind whatever seats they were in), or some kind of handle/harness that hangs from the roof of the cargo bay to hang onto/strap into, yes.

Also, I decided that making a smaller model would be a bigger pain in the rear than the minifig-scale one, so here's what I have so far:
Deferat-class WIP:

Yes I know there's little to no greebling, I know the wings are too big/too thin, and that it doesn't have a cockpit or any weapons other than the missile pods on either side (which, by the way, can fire four salvos of thirteen missiles each, for a total of 108 missiles that fit in the model), but I'm planning on at least two twin turrets flanking the cockpit and a relatively large rotary cannon on the chin, complete with camera.

.LXF here on Brickshelf, if anybody wants to look at it.

BE AWARE THAT THIS MODEL IS VERY VERY BIG.

Yes that was obnoxious but it wasn't hyperbole. For a shuttle this thing is a monster.

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:09 pm
Actually, I'm planning on making those wings smaller, yes. Maybe steal an idea from Marvel's Quinjet and put in some of those same VTOL fans in there, with armor planets to cover them when not in use...maybe. I mean, this does have repulsorlifts installed...I may just get rid of the wings in general. *shrugs*

EDIT 1:
WIP:

So, ripped off the wings, and I have to admit that does look pretty nice...not sure where to go with that, so I'm gonna start trying to sort out the front "third" of the shuttle, and maybe try to add on some weapons. Maybe even landing gear, since I recall someone liked seeing that sort of thing.

EDIT 2:
Spoiler:

Cockpit added, along with a couple of smaller turrets. I'm going to work on the ventral side next, and add in a couple larger turrets along the spine.

I'm...not really happy with the cockpit, but it's what I managed to get with my level of proficiency in LDD (or lack thereof), and it's got a six-man crew in there, even. I don't know if it's a "cockpit too small" or "cargo bay so *bleep*ing big" issue, but I don't know how to fix it at the moment. Just getting it into the main model was a nightmare...


Last edited by Lord Commandant Jace on Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:46 pm
I'd definitely say that's a "big cargo bay" issue;The main problem is that the body presents a vertical, unaerodynamic and boxy side. Unfortunately, th only way I can think of to fix it is to streamline the whole thing by adding a tapering connecting section from the bottom of the missile pods to the cockpit itself, which would be extremely long (probably). Razz IDK; as I said, this is not my area, so I can't really offer much useful advice. Razz

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:21 pm
That was what I was thinking about doing originally, and doing something similar to the Sentinel-class with some laser cannons in that connection point. Problem then was how to get that to taper into the entire body.

I'm almost tempted to see if I can figure out some kind of full-fledged command-and-control/combat information center, since the Deferat-class would be sent out on independent operations with the commando units...

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:32 pm
If this is supposed to be a command craft, then yeah, a secondary command hub or something of that nature would probably be a good idea. Razz Although it makes me question it's weaponry; I mean, I'm not saying it's OP (it isn't), just that a commando shuttle hardly needs such heavy firepower. The resources and power that are going to weaponry would better served going to the engines and/or stealth system, IMO.

But then again, maybe I misinterpreted your message. Razz

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Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

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I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: Proof of Concept

on Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:32 pm
It's a multiple-role design. The one I'm working on right now is the heavy commando deployment version. These are the guys that have no trouble letting the enemy know they're here, because they're arriving with heavy firepower in the from of the Recon Tank and Grenadier Mech. Twisted Evil Stealth deployments work differently. The commando version was just the most complex and therefore the one I wanted to make sure would work out.

There are two or three other main purposes: infantry transport (at least a Platoon if not more), cargo transport (vehicles, really, but maybe other logistics), and boarding craft (hence all the weapons), so that's why it's got so much going for it. I'm actually reducing the missile load by a third to better suit the purpose of giving the engines more power (that's an internal bit of detail, there Razz) to carry all of this, and generate stronger shields to match the heavy armor and armament.

EDIT 1:
Engines/Generators:

See? Details! Razz

EDIT 2:

Progress! Kinda.
Progress?:
I'm thinking about making the forward "third" kind of look like a Guardian-class, with cannons on the side that might even "fold in" and probably some kind of heavy chin gun. And then a couple turrets on the roof and bottom, maybe? I haven't figured that part out yet...


Last edited by Lord Commandant Jace on Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:03 am
I'm VERY glad you're doing this-- I think this will be one of the first times in the PCG-verse that someone has built a realistically large landing craft. The fact is that many of the shuttles and such we've built up to now look awesome, but really aren't large or heavy enough to carry something as large or heavy as a tank. Keep it up, it looks great!

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:30 pm
IIRC, Kojan's assault shuttle thingies were about as large (if not larger) than this, though I don't think they weren't in minifig scale...

...then again, it's been a long time, so I could be remembering completely incorrectly....

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
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Re: Proof of Concept

on Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:30 pm
Siriondil Daragon wrote:I'm VERY glad you're doing this-- I think this will be one of the first times in the PCG-verse that someone has built a realistically large landing craft. The fact is that many of the shuttles and such we've built up to now look awesome, but really aren't large or heavy enough to carry something as large or heavy as a tank. Keep it up, it looks great!

Thanks! I didn't realize how big this actually was, especially when I started it in minifigure scale, but now that I have I'm really happy that I'm working on it the way I am. This thing really just eliminates the list of small craft I needed, and doesn't suffer from "jack of all trades" syndrome, so I'm really happy about that.
All that's left is the bridge/cockpit/command center, wings, weapons, some shaping and structural reinforcing, and it'll be done!

Tetrahedron wrote:IIRC, Kojan's assault shuttle thingies were about as large (if not larger) than this, though I don't think they weren't in minifig scale...

...then again, it's been a long time, so I could be remembering completely incorrectly....

If you're talking about the Y-6 Thunder Eagle, then there's no way that's as big as the Deferat-class. At least, the model isn't for sure, even if the design is meant to be. I'll also point out that Daragon did qualify his statement, anyway.

I'm also going to say that this monster of a model ought to be done by...maybe the end of the calendar year? Just after the New Year, if not.

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:50 pm
The Thunder Eagle is not built to minifig scale (I think) so the model is certainly smaller. I am not sure about the actual craft.


But yes, this thing is MASSIVE. I cannot recall anyone attempting anything anywhere near this scale. I eagerly await the final product. So far it looks SO cool. Smile

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:22 pm
Yeah, as Dino said, the model isn't in minifig scale, so it's waaaaaaay smaller than the Deferat; the only reason I bring it up is because Supe said this was the only real sizable landing craft, which technically isn't true (though, as I believe I already noted, this is the only minifig-scale one). Razz Kojan also had a second one, IIRC- the Lightning Hawk, or something like that- which might be smaller or larger or something (as I said, it's been a long time). Razz

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: Proof of Concept

on Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:49 pm
Dino27 wrote:The Thunder Eagle is not built to minifig scale (I think) so the model is certainly smaller. I am not sure about the actual craft.


But yes, this thing is MASSIVE. I cannot recall anyone attempting anything anywhere near this scale. I eagerly await the final product. So far it looks SO cool. Smile

Thank you very kindly, Dino. And yes, I think the Y-6 is a bit larger in-universe. But my model is bigger so I still informally claim the title to "largest model design." Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:Yeah, as Dino said, the model isn't in minifig scale, so it's waaaaaaay smaller than the Deferat; the only reason I bring it up is because Supe said this was the only real sizable landing craft, which technically isn't true (though, as I believe I already noted, this is the only minifig-scale one). Razz Kojan also had a second one, IIRC- the Lightning Hawk, or something like that- which might be smaller or larger or something (as I said, it's been a long time). Razz

Erm, what does IIRC mean? And I think you mean the...Y-3? Definitely smaller than the Y-6, meaning also smaller than the Deferat.

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:21 pm
As I said, long time; so maybe, maybe not. Razz But yeah, the Deferat can definitely claim the title of"biggest minifig-scale model". Razz

IIRC: If I Recall Correctly; I seem to remember already telling you that. Razz

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: Proof of Concept

on Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:20 pm
Tetrahedron wrote:As I said, long time; so maybe, maybe not. Razz But yeah, the Deferat can definitely claim the title of"biggest minifig-scale model". Razz

IIRC: If I Recall Correctly; I seem to remember already telling you that. Razz

Probably, but it's not an uber-common or military acronym so I likely forgot. To me it's an unnecessary and ineffective condensing given that there's no intuitive way of figuring it out.

As for that title, I'm almost tempted to challenge someone to make a bigger one, but then RMM would show up and actually do it, so...I'm not gonna. Razz

EDIT:

Cockpit #2:

I'm more happy with it than I am the first one - I still need weapons (either a chin-mounted rotary cannon turret or two chin-mounted heavy cannons), to streamline things, fix the integrity on some parts, and hopefully that'll work out.

Assuming, of course, I stick with this cockpit...

EDIT 2:

MORE PROGRESS!!!
PROGRESS!!!:
Now all I need is wings, weapons, and some other detail work, mostly internal - the outside's gonna be pretty Spartan...even though I cleaned out the cargo bay for the sake of getting the piece count down. Even at just under 3,500 my old Toshiba's "crashing" every time I save (meaning it blanks out, says it's "not responding," and then saves just fine), and my new Dell is still not ready to be put back into use. That being said, for a couple weeks' work, I'd say this is pretty darned impressive!


Last edited by Lord Commandant Jace on Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:05 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:15 pm
It's extremely boxy, but it does have a nice appeal to it for space travel, but it looks terrible for atmospheric work. No I didn't read the description so you may have already answered this. Razz But it's nice overall, love the cargo bay!

For the record, I have a much larger transport in progresss....but then agian, you have alot more progress on yours than I do. Razz

But I have an old slow computer. <--(My go to excuse for everything) Razz

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:28 pm
Commander Ant wrote:It's extremely boxy, but it does have a nice appeal to it for space travel, but it looks terrible for atmospheric work. No I didn't read the description so you may have already answered this. Razz  But it's nice overall, love the cargo bay!

For the record, I have a much larger transport in progress....but then again, you have a lot more progress on yours than I do. Razz

But I have an old slow computer. <--(My go to excuse for everything) Razz

It's not meant to be a graceful atmospheric craft, but that's what heavy armor, powerful shielding, and big engines are for, complimented by lots of guns an' missiles. Razz

Actually, this was originally just for boarding actions, but then I decided, "well it's going to be big anyways, why not consolidate the troopship/gunship/drop ship roles into this thing, too? Razz" So far I'm pretty happy with this, but yeah, definitely in atmosphere this thing would have escorts. Razz

As for old, slow computers, I'm running a Toshiba Satellite from about 2008-2009. So there goes your go-to excuse. Razz

EDIT:

Turrets on the sides of the cockpit, built and added:
Turrets!:
This brings the model's piece total to 3,729. Also, these are the kinds of turrets that would be used to defend dug-in or built-up installations...not the kind of cannons you want to be pointed at you when this comes in to land. Twisted Evil


Last edited by Lord Commandant Jace on Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:11 pm
I recommend doing the cockpit a bit more like the Lambda-class shuttle or, even better, the Sentinel-class landing craft. Not totally like them, and I know it would require a lot of complicated work, but it would flow much more nicely, and you could keep the turrets if you moved them up just a bit and angled the cockpit right. Idk, just a thought; looks very nice, keep it up!

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:20 pm
Siriondil Daragon wrote:I recommend doing the cockpit a bit more like the Lambda-class shuttle or, even better, the Sentinel-class landing craft. Not totally like them, and I know it would require a lot of complicated work, but it would flow much more nicely, and you could keep the turrets if you moved them up just a bit and angled the cockpit right. Idk, just a thought; looks very nice, keep it up!

That's what I was thinking about doing, but honestly I think it's more trouble than it's worth. Besides, I like the CR25-style bulkiness, and it fits better with the type of Mandalorian aesthetic I go for anyways.

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:51 am
I see what you mean-- perhaps just adding a bigger slope to the bottom would be just as good. That'd be a pretty easy fix, and it might flow better with the shape of the top. I do like the bulk, though-- if you want to keep the shape as it is, you could also try breaking up the smoothness with some "bulges" of armor plating or smaller cannons. But that would be a later stage, I guess, when you're done with the main part.

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:54 pm
I'm planning on making the bottom of the cockpit area and the main hold blend a bit better somehow, and there's going to be a ventral structure of sorts with another pair of twin cannons/turrets embedded in them, so that ought to satisfy the bulge/bulk thing you mentioned. But given how big this guy's getting, just opening the model and moving it around to hide the areas I'm not working on takes almost as much time as it does to work on importing and attaching different models, which takes a long time itself. Razz

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:59 pm
So, quick little update (I was home sick, remember?), because Arik mentioned something about wings:
Wings:

I'm not really sure about them myself - they're thing and look rather fragile, not to mention their connection/rotation mechanism isn't the strongest either. Plus the addition of the wings kind of...ruins the bulky look I really like about the design...

Also, anybody have suggestions for how I ought to do the dorsal (top) spinal "structure" with the cannons? And/or making the ventral (bottom) look/flow better? I've kind of hit designers block right now...either too much school, or the fact that I'm sick, or I've just run out of ideas. Probably the first two.

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Re: Proof of Concept

on Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:39 pm
Well with wings like that, you're basically now making an enormous, supercharged Sentinel landing craft. As such, you could probably do very well by putting a sort of back-sweeping superstructure on the top, moving towards a dorsal wing a lot like the Sentinel's.

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