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Indiana-class Light Cruiser

on Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:05 pm
Now that I finally have my weaponry/tech figured out, I can actually get to uploading a new ship. Now I need to get back to my challenge ships, and then {Project:Hierarchy}... which are all fun (in the Dwarf Fortress sense)...

Indiana Light Cruiser:

Overview:
   The Indiana-class is a 680-meter long medium cruiser designed and employed as a workhorse vessel by many the PCG Fleet. Unlike the many specialist cruisers in the Fleet’s arsenal, the Indiana was created to be multirole and versatile, while still maintaining combat proficiency. It has become a standard vessel across most of PCG space, being used in some function by most PCG commanders. The vessel is also known as an excellent starting platform for up-and-coming officers; indeed, many of the PCG’s most prestigious junior commanders have been the captain of an “Indy” at some point in their career.

Design History and Details:
  The design of the Indiana is actually not terribly unique; being one of the first ships designed and constructed by the PCG, it borrows heavily from the Federation’s more militarized designs- particularly the Sovereign-class. The Indiana was intended to quite simply act as an effective light cruiser in a multitude of roles, including blockade, direct combat, support, etc.
  The PCG council initially set the vessel as a low priority, believing the design and construction of new capital ships to have precedence; however, in the wake of Operation:Omega, both the PCG and Federation’s sub-capital fleet were left ravaged, to the point where one PCG commander famously called the remaining frigate corps “anemic”. Thus, construction of several lighter classes of vessels was greatly accelerated to fill the void as fast as possible. This resulted in a somewhat buggy and underpowered ship, taking several months of testing and field operations to properly sort out.
  Interestingly, it was also one of the first to introduce a hexagonal segmented-hull design, now a standard among most PCG sub-capital vessels. The “insect construction”, as the shipwright jargon goes, vastly increases the vessel’s hull strength, providing for greater hull integrity, acceleration, and service life. Combined with it’s relatively-heavy armor, the Indiana proved to be a fairly tough ship for it’s time- though less so in comparison to more modern vessels, which integrate many of the same features.
  In order to maximize hangar capacity, PCG engineers created a “hump” design right above the primary launch bay located at the rear of the engineering hull. It’s primary purpose is to contain many of the ship’s combat strike craft for storage and maintenance, leaving the main deck clear for flight operations- thus allowing the Indiana to maintain a constant CAP of two or three fighter wings.
  In addition to the obvious design influences from combat vessels, the Indiana took cues from several non-combat vessel- most notably, the nacelles were treated as an extension of the ship’s body (like the Intrepid-class) instead of merely a way to get the nacelles in position for optimal warp geometry (like in the Sovereign). The impulse engines are built straight into the pylons, along with several combat and engineering systems. In addition, the pylons themselves are much thicker and longer than if standard techniques had been used- which has (not surprisingly) proved to be a boon to hull integrity.

Service History:
   The keel of the PCG Indiana, first of it’s kind, was laid in September of 2601 and launched on April 8th of the following year. Testing trials began immediately, demonstrating a good all-rounder vessel that successfully combined hull strength, shielding capacity, firepower, and fighter support in one package (albeit one with somewhat spartan living conditions and numerous technical glitches). The only major weakness the craft showed was it’s reactor; though normally more than sufficient to sustain the craft, combat tests showed that extended battlefield conditions quickly depleted both the primary warp core and backup batteries, a problem latter identified and rectified as major inefficiencies within the shielding grid. Regardless, the ship could only afford to fire all weapons at normal power for a relatively short period of time (roughly twenty minutes) before depletion- at least with shields online as well. As a result, many of the Indiana’s original roles were some variation of skirmishing and raiding, where the limited window for maximized firepower was less of a hindrance.
   Though many of said issues have now been resolved, The Indiana remains in primarily a support role for larger fleets, which generally have access to heavier assets such as heavy cruisers and battleships. However, for smaller flotillas, Indianas play a central combat role. Often one of the few direct-combat cruiser-sized ships border-fleet captains can reasonably expect to acquire, they often serve as frontline combat vessels in everything from patrol to anti-pirate raids to escort duty.
  Interestingly, the PCG Council intentionally constructed more Indianas than they would be able to nominally support; indeed, only about 45-60% of commissioned Indianas are in use under normal circumstances, with the rest mothballed. The reason for this is twofold: firstly, by cycling out vessels over time, the wear and tear on a singular individual hull is decreased, extending the serviceable lifetime of the entire fleet; and secondly, so the Council has a ready-made reinforcement fleet. During times of war, these nominally-mothballed ships are quickly readied and crewed by recruits or reserves and dispatched on missions generally not directly pertaining to the war (primarily some form of anti-piracy operation), alleviating some of the demand for veteran crews and combat-ready ships. This strategy proved quite effective during the various post-O:O crises, such as the Cor Redor Incursion.

Spoiler:

Don't ask me why there's no background; I hade it in the Space mode. Must be an Advanced Shading thing. Razz Ah, well, suppose that means I gotta start GIMPing things again. Three cheers for extending the time it takes to upload ships by three hours! Razz

   Fun fact: this is the first ship I’ve made using a new program I wrote in Java over the last couple days; essentially, it takes the vessel’s dimensions and calculates most of the numerical stuff, like crew compliment and whatnot. I’ll hopefully eventually expand it into other areas, but for now, I think it’s quite functional.
  As to the ship itself, I have mixed feelings. One the one hand, I don’t particularly like the saucer- too rectangular. Parts of the engineering hull look kinda iffy too, especially the middle, and I couldn’t figure out a way to weaponize the underside without making it too big or outright ugly. Razz Not a huge fan of the studded pylons either, though this is somewhat balanced out by their overall shape- it’s much thicker and wider than a normal nacelle pylon, and it gives the ship somewhat of a unique look- in a good way IMHO. Razz On the other hand, I like how the Spectrum cannons fit the overall design, and that nacelle design continues to be my personal favorite of all my pre-built selection. Razz By far what I like the most about this ship, however, is the “neck” section: that’s what give it it’s very Sovereign-y* look IMO, and the snot work is really good (if I do say so myself Razz). Far and away, that’s my favorite part of the ship right there- getting that to work was a nightmare (IIRC), so having it come out so nicely is a nice treat Razz

Stats:
-Classification: PCC (Heavy Cruiser)
-Role: Escort, patrol, support, various tactical roles
-Armaments: 18 phasers, 19 Quantum phasers, 16 torpedo tubes, 2 gauss cannons, 2 spectrum cannons, 1 hypervoltac cannon, 4 railguns, 6 phaser cannons, 5 EMP torpedo tubes
-Shielding: 45 primary generators, 36 secondary generators, 27 regenerative generators
-Armor: 6 inches ablative standard; 10.2 near key areas
-Dimensions:
  -Length: 680 meters
  -Beam: 345 meters
  -Draft: 111 meters
  -Mass: 3,408,000 metric tons
-Impulse: 2x impulse drive systems | impulse rating 11; acceleration rating 7, maneuver rating 12
-Warp: 2x Packard-Georgia nacelles | MCW: 7.5; MEW: 9.1
-Sensory/Comms: Standard-ranged sensors | Standard comms equipment
-Crew: 136 officers, 408 crew | 13 shuttle pilots, 76 strike craft pilots.
-Strike Craft: 8 Valkyrie shuttles, 1 Hercules heavy shuttles, 3 squadrons of strike craft
-Ammo: 960 standard torpedo casings, 900 railgun shells, 640 gauss rounds
-Assault: 136 marines, 22 Tempest hardsuits

Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o77ckpsjwbm80ab/PCG%20Indianna%20PCC.lxf?dl=0

Comments/criticism/questions/concerns are welcome, as always!

*No, seriously, does this not look like a Sovereign? Even the dimensions are pretty similar: the Indiana is only five meters shorter, significantly wider, and a fair margin taller. Razz


Last edited by Tetrahedron on Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : J-red insisted I spelled "Indiana" right. XD)

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Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

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Re: Indiana-class Light Cruiser

on Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:23 pm
I for one love the saucer, it's unique and different and adds alot of character to the ship in my opinion, and I think it flows nicely with the rest of the ship. As far the the standard federation sacuer+two naccles coming off the engineering style goes, this is by far one of my favorites. Nice job!

And yes, very through and creative description, very enjoyable. One question though, can we get a tech explanation on spectrum canons?

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Re: Indiana-class Light Cruiser

on Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:30 pm
First let me say the as SH said, that's an impressive description. 

Second, let me say that although I wasn't a fan Spectrum cannons on first or even second glance... but they're slowly growing on me. I'm still unsure about them as the idea is new, but I think I may end up liking them quite a bit... I need to to digest this interesting new design.

As both you and S-H said, I think that the saucer needs work. The shape is off for the rest of the design, but it isn't poorly done IMO. 

The engineering hull on this thing is VERY interesting and unique... in a very good way. And yes, I can TOTALLY see the Sovereign in her heritage. 

Now for my inevitable critiques. 
1: the nacelles seem much too short, and too far away from the engineering hull to me. Personal preference, but I think they aren't balanced enough. 
2: the dark red and the dark blue on the saucer just seems out of place, unless maybe only one was used throughout the design. 
3 the saucer, as already mentioned, is the wrong shape and has far too many studs IMHO. It is also too big, I think, compared to the engineering hull and nacelles. It's possible that with longer nacelles, and maybe even a somewhat longer engineering hull, this size saucer would aesthetically work, but I am not sure.  
4: I cannot imagine that PCG engineers would be so inept as to design a ship that cannot maintain shielding and fire its weapons for more than 20 minutes. 

But I think you have a LOT of potential and clever ideas here... a LOT. 

Two other things
1: In my understanding of regenerative shielding, you just have more total shield emitters, but don't have them all running at once. Once 1 is overheated and overworked, you use another that's been on hot standby to take over the work and maintain the shield. Although this likely keeps the shields from being as amazingly powerful as would be possible using all of the more plentiful than normal emitters at once, it allows far more damage to be taken over the course of a long battle as it regenerates the shield continuously. 
2: I LOVE how this ship looks from the side view. LOVE it!  


Overall, great work, Tetra!

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Re: Indiana-class Light Cruiser

on Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:15 pm
S-H: don't get me wrong, I love long descriptions- but as I said, it literally takes longer to write them than it does to actually build the ship. Razz Probably going to limit extended descriptions like these to important ships; doing it every single time is utterly impractical. Razz

TBH, I can't take credit for the Spectrum cannons; I took them off a really old AA ship I won in a contest. Razz I only use them because I had them on the ship anyway, and it didn't make sense that the one vessel had so many unique weapons IMO. Razz

Yeah, it probably could work with a SNOT design- after all, the saucer is half-SNOT already- but I'm not entirely convinced of the practicality.

...actually, yeah, it wouldn't be that hard. Then again, I seem to recall my entire thought process for the ship was "let's see if we can use that one roof tile for a saucer", then tacked on the engineering hull after seeing Dino's Iowa refit (which probably explains the "disjunction" Razz). IDK, I'll probably go that route when I get to the refit. Razz Thanks!

(Thinking it over again, a redo of the saucer could mess up the saucer-engineering transition, which could easily get very problematic.... IDK, will have to give it a good think. Razz)

Ant- Already provided one in the weapons spotter: http://phoenixcommandgroup.forumotion.com/t621-tetrahedron-weapon-spotter (C2, under Light Macroweapons) Razz Thanks!

Dino: Yeah, turns out "rounded box" doesn't flow terribly well. Razz

I actually quite like how distant the nacelles are; adds to the character IMO. Razz The design of the nacelles makes extensions difficult, but if you say they should be longer, I'll look into it.

Why does everyone hate the blue-red stripes? I *like* the blue-and-red stripes! Razz

As I said to S-H, the saucer pretty much needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. Razz

they were rushed, OK? They kinda needed the ships yesterday, so you can excuse them for slightly botching the shield harmonics. Razz

Yeah, I understand how regenerative shielding works; I used a page on the development of the Sovereign I found when I was looking up it's mass as inspiration for much of the design history, and it spent a great deal on regenerative shielding and how the first Sovereigns didn't have enough power to run it. Razz My own shield tech works slightly differently, but it's more-or-less the same concept. I gotta explain all this at some point... Razz

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: Indiana-class Light Cruiser

on Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:40 pm
Tetra: it sounds like we've been reading in many of the same places to learn about all this Trek tech, interesting. Razz

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Re: Indiana-class Light Cruiser

on Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:49 pm
Was it perhaps the undine contest? Because that's the only thing that barely rings a bell with the name apparition class or in the design of the spectrum class. Did teh apparation class have three rings about it's middle with four oversized tubes on it?

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Re: Indiana-class Light Cruiser

on Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:05 pm
So, I actually really like this ship, and mostly for totally different reasons than everyone else. Razz

Opinions:

-The dark red/blue coloration on the saucer looks nice. Maybe some different techniques for applying it so it doesn't look like a 14x20 pixel design made in Paint, though... Razz
Unfortunately, it's the rest of the ship that makes it look not-quite-right. The studded-ness of the saucer, while pretty common in everyone's designs, just looks ugly and rough. And combined with all the little stud plates and antenna-laser-turrets and glowy lights and grille pieces... it's just too cluttered. Razz As a result, it's just a big jumbled mess, and it makes the red-blue stripes not look good.

-The rectangular saucer is awesome. Razz But seriously, I love it. It's big and unique and tough-looking. Best part of the entire ship for me, honestly.
The issue? The way it transitions into the rest of the ship. If you get a top-down view, you can see there's this 2-stud-wide super-skinny part where the saucer ends and the... engineering hull? ...begins. This is made worse because the saucer's so wide. Razz Thicken it and it should look fine, though.

-I don't really care for the engineering hull. The neck (excluding the previous issue) is gorgeous. The rest is angular and yet somehow reminds me of a spider's abdomen or something. The pointy-ness of the very back is kinda ugly. And that surface on the bottom with all the 1x3 bow pieces just doesn't blend with the rest of the ship at all.

-The nacelles are a little... odd. I somehow like them yet don't. Razz I'll comment more when I figure that out... Razz



So that's basically everything. I think I might actually try my hand at making a refit of this one. I'm kinda liking it for some reason, and I'd like to get those problems I mentioned ironed out to see what the end result is. Razz

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Re: Indiana-class Light Cruiser

on Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:25 am
First off, I wanna point out that Indiana is spelled incorrectly. XD

Secondly I wanna point out that I really like the color scheme, especially the pattern around the upper saucer with the dark red and the earth blue. The yellow kinda throws off the other colors though... And I'm not feelin' the trans-purple pips.

Thirdly, I LOVE the design of the warp nacelles as well as the rear of the engineering hull on the top of it, great usage of those sloped pieces!

Fourthly, as Ant and Arik said, the rectangular saucer is awesome, something unique and different from most of the saucer portions of most Star Fleet-esq ships. Razz

Fifthly, the whole underside of the ship is pure awesomesauce, I'd add a tiny bit more detailing on the underside of the engineering hull, but it's still awesome, and the underside of the saucer/primary hull is simply amazing (could use a few more weapons though) I really love the raised cylinder plates with the grate decal on them. Adds a nice bit of character.

Sixthly, the Hypervoltaic Cannon, I assume is the antenna with the trans-blue rod? And for that matter, I assume the guass cannons are the two rod/Technic piece combo things on the bottom? Aside from those and the Spectrum Cannons, I can't really make out what all the other weapons are... Not I think you might have left off one of the railguns.

Seventhly, I LOVE the Spectrum Cannons, they reminds me of the big gun thingies on the bottom of the USS Vengeance in Star Trek: Into the Darkness.

Eighthly, it needs a much larger navigational deflector (and those look best in trans blue with trans red detailing).

Ninthly, on the upper deck of the engineering hull, you have a green light on the port side, and a blue light on the starbord side, Uh... what are those for...?

Tenthly, I wish I could write a ship description like that. Excellent work on it as well. It was descriptions like this that led to the creation of an actual timeline and storyline for the PCG, I used to be able to write 'em like that, but not anymore it seems.

Eleventhly, it DOES look like a Sovereign. Razz

(Moving on to everyone else's comments)

Twelfthly (?), ... *eyes S-H's comment* ("I'm fairly certain the entire construct could be converted into a fully SNOT design, with some tweaking.") *eyes twitch* SNOT... design...

Thirteenthly (We're really getting deep aren't we), @ Dino-ish -"In my understanding of regenerative shielding, you just have more total shield emitters, but don't have them all running at once. Once 1 is overheated and overworked, you use another that's been on hot standby to take over the work and maintain the shield. Although this likely keeps the shields from being as amazingly powerful as would be possible using all of the more plentiful than normal emitters at once, it allows far more damage to be taken over the course of a long battle as it regenerates the shield continuously. " I wished the shields in STO worked like that.


Fourteenthly, I agree with Dino, I think that the pylons are a bit too long (just by a stud or two on each side) and the nacelles could be lengthened.

Fifteenthly, I agree with Dino again... 20 minutes of firepower...? Especially for a ship of this size seems pretty low. You'd think it'd have some kind of massive regenerating batteries or alternating weapons systems that wouldn't tire out the weapons batteries so quickly.

Sixteenthly, I agree with Arik, it does seem kinda cluttered up there on the saucer, I kind of alluded to that in some of my prior comments.

Seventeenthly, @ Airk, that two stud wide part is actually wider than it appears if you get in and look at the ship close in the .lxf, it's actually closer to 4 studs wide, it's just that the slope converges at the same point and makes it look smaller.

Eighteenthly, @ Arik and Mighty, It's supposed to look like a spider, if you read the description it explains that. And personally I like it, don't touch the upper deck of the engineering hull. Razz

Ninteenthly, I think I foresee several people refitting this one. This may be your most popular ship yet. Razz

Twentiethly (For twentieth's sake), I REALLY LOVE this ship. It's pure awesomesauce in digital plastic form.

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Re: Indiana-class Light Cruiser

on Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:03 am
This is gonna be a long one, huh boy. Razz

Dino: Razz

Ant: Yep, that's the ship. Razz I have my personal refit of it sitting here on the ol' hard drive, taking up dust. Might have to get back to that...

Arik: Heh, of course there's always that one guy. Razz

I still like the stripes. Razz

Unique, yes, but I'm not convinced I'm loving it. Three people have said they like it now, though, so I'll have to play around with it a bit more. And as J-red said, the only parts of the ship thinner than four studs is the tapering end of the engineering hull and the nacelles. Razz

Hmm, someone who doesn't like the engineering hull. Interesting. Razz TBH, the neck is easily my personal favorite part; the rest, I can sorta see where you're coming from (though I have no idea where you got "spider's abdomen" Razz).

You do that; once again, you're the only real dissent in that area, so I'm waiting for your response. Razz

By all means, have a go at the refit! It'll be interesting to see what you come up with. Razz

J-red: Wow, your comment is longer than Dino's. Welp, better start moving canned food into the bomb shelter...

1) Yeah, at first I thought there were two 'n's, then Google docs started correcting it to one 'n'- so it's spelled correctly in some places and incorrectly in others. Razz

2) *THANK* YOU! SOMEONE ELSE WHO LIKES THE STRIPES! Razz The yellow I like to keep as an accent, and the purple are the EMP torpedoes, so those stay. Razz

3) Yeah, I love those nacelles myself. Razz

4) Well, the saucer is proving to be a bigger hit than I thought it would. Razz

5) Yeah, the engineering hull's underside desperately needs something; it currently has pretty much nothing. Razz IDK, underside of the saucer seems weaponized enough... weeeeell, maybe nooooott... I'll have to see. Razz

6) Those would be correct, yes. If it really matters to you, they're all there in the Weapon Spotter post above- though some of the roles have changed. Razz I really need to update that...

7) Razz

Cool What? Oh, yeah, that... yeah, I sorta just throw in my nav deflectors wherever I can, even if that means making them way too small. Razz

9) Running lights. Razz I know they're normally green and red, but I use the trans-red 1x1 square as a phaser cannons, so I switched it out for blue. Razz

10) Yeah, they take a crapton of time and actually require research- but they can be quite satisfying. Razz As I said, descriptions this extensive probably won't become a regular thing, but it's still nice to know I can do them. Razz

11) It does! Razz

12) Razz (To be fair, it already kinda *is* a SNOT design, mostly... Razz)

13) Razz

14) As I said, I like the long pylons; the nacelles, however, I'll see what I can do.

15) "Twenty minutes" assumes it's firing everything- every spectrum cannon, phaser bank, and railgun it can. Since, again, the finalization of the design was rushed, there were some major power inefficiencies (especially in the shielding) which resulted in said weapons failures. The issues are now rectified, though, so no need to worry. Razz

16) I would say it looks *cluttered*... well, maybe. IDK. Razz

17) Yeah, that's much easier to see from the bottom. Razz

18) Actually, I just kinda shoehorned that in there as flavor text... but sure, let's go with that! Razz

19) Yeah, and I'm definitely gonna take another crack at it. Razz I think the ship's main issue is how the rough, square saucer meets the sleek, angular engineering hull, so my plant is to rip the two apart and make each a different ship; the engineering hull with the new saucer will become the Indiana (retconning this one) and the saucer with the new body will become the Ohio-class heavy cruiser or something along those lines. Dunno, will have to see how things work out...

20) Thanks! Razz

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

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Re: Indiana-class Light Cruiser

on Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:22 pm
AHHH!!! THE END IS NIGH! THE COMMENTS! THEY LAST FOREVER! EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF! Razz 


Hmmm.... yeah... I think  everyone covered everything about this ship. Razz  And although I agree with J-red that the nav deflector is a bit small, I personally prefer solid colored nav deflectors myself, most of the time anyway. 

Also, I think J-red(?) Pointed out something that I missed. That nacelle design!         Shocked

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Re: Indiana-class Light Cruiser

on Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:24 pm
Not sure why you'd be so surprised by the nacelle design; I already used it on the Bastion-class. Razz

EDIT: this just occurred to me: If I were to use transparent brick with this nav deflector, I would have to use a 1x1 rounded plate- which is fine, except that that's the brick I use for torpedo tubes. Razz

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Meanwhile, on the chat....
Arik wrote:I'm ready to get back to worldbuilding now... Razz

Tetrahedron wrote:I'm not sure if we should interrupt Ant like this...
He might kill us with his cow bombs

Star-Hunter wrote:"He might kill us with his cow bombs."
I'll take phrases I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime for $500
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Re: Indiana-class Light Cruiser

on Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:29 pm
Well... navigational deflectors are often used as makeshift (beam) weapons... You'd just be improving on the idea. Razz

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Re: Indiana-class Light Cruiser

on Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:35 pm
Twentifirstly, the speeleng still hasn't been fixed. Razz

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Re: Indiana-class Light Cruiser

on Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:41 pm
Dino:Razz

J-red: Arrgh, I'll get to it...

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