Out of Character Discussion

Guys, let's not get too nosy about his subplot. I'm sure he knows that sort of thing would be a no-go; and even if it wasn't, we could always just retcon it or something. Basically, I don't want spoilers.

@Tetra: That's the wisest thing I've heard all year day. I need to give you a medal. Anyway, everybody, just listen to what Tetra said! Seriously, as he said, if it gets in the "meh" parts, then just change or delete it. I have an overall idea, so it probably won't turn into a war with the PCG. Anyway, PXE can't afford a war at the present.

@Supe: If PXE was the one that created the Mukara, why would we? Our population plummeted enough after the first war. Anyway, despite PXE's lack of ethics, we would've do that, considering we could simply use chemical weapons for population control. Even then, we wouldn't kill our own population, a population that continuously grows PXE's military.

So, I'm moving the current OOC discussion from the SOL topic.

As far as how my actions effected the SOL Roleplay.

A.

Tetrahedron wrote:My issue with it was that he literally just took a dramatic moment and decided to essentially ignore it with his super-gun.

I did not ignore a dramatic moment. I set up said dramatic moment specifically to utilize the WMG. Scare knew this prior, if I wanted to just ignore a dramatic moment, the Argo would have moved in with the rest of the fleet at the opening of the battle and simply have blown away the Romulan fleet without any warning. I had this entire tactic set up and run by Scare from the moment we dropped into warp in orbit around Rator III. I PMed Scare my entire plan, from the speech to the WMG blast and specifically held the Argo back so that the Romulans would not be expecting it.

Johnnyred wrote:

Spoiler:

B.

Tetrahedron wrote:Instead of having an interesting plot point, you literally pressed a button and the problem went away.

Tetrahedron wrote:WMG or not; the point is, you literally had an "I win" button. Kind of defeats the point.

Tetrahedron wrote:My issue with it was that he literally just took a dramatic moment and decided to essentially ignore it with his super-gun.

Here is said dramatic moment.

Scarecrow wrote:"Captain Johnnyred," he sneers. "I am a Romulan. I am not a human coward, a Vulcan drone, or a member of any other inferior race. I am a Romulan. My men are Romulans. And we don't surrender."

The unthinkable occurs. Admiral Teran orders his flagship to speed ahead--in direct course for a collision with the Argo. As the ship draws rapidly closer to smashing into the Argo's main hull, Teran laughs hysterically.

"You may destroy most of the 12fth fleet, but it will be over my dead body!"

So... I was just supposed to let him ram his ship down the bow of my ship without doing anything? I guess that would have been dramatic. But also idiotic on the part of a captain.

C.

Siriondil Daragon wrote:I...but...you had PXR take out his missile strike but not Jred's wave motion gun... also, nobody "escaped" the wave motion gun, people just ran away.

I can answer that in part with something Scare said that I think was majorly overlooked.

Scarecrow wrote: First, it's dreadfully cruel to the masses of innocent civilians...

This was the main reason that Scare asked the Anti-Matter assault to be removed. Now you may argue, "But... but you were using Wave Shock Cannons to bombard the planet!" True. However, I was specifically targeting Anti-Air batteries, air fields, and other tactical targets. The Anti-Matter attack was attacking everything. And now we come back to where the WMG is different from this. The WMG was specifically targeting enemy forces and angled away from the planet.

Johnnyred wrote:Maneuver us in position to fire on the Romulan and SAF fleets without compromising the safety of the planet!" Johnnyred orders.

D.

PXR wrote:I didn't destroy the planet; I simply eradicated everything on the surface and about a kilometer below.

I never said you destroyed the planet.

Johnnyred wrote:Because I wiped out a few ships that were in a concentrated group. Not all life on a planet.

THAT's what I said.

Thank you, and goodnight.

"Dreadfully cruel to civilians"? In a war where you're trying to make one side out to be passionately violent and totally lacking in morals/ethics in wartime, you want all the civilians safely out of harm's way? If you think war is that clean, you should be building science ships for the Federation. xD

To be honest, I don't think you OR PXR ruined anything. I thought both your and PXR's posts were fine, I just was/still am confused as to why his city-pounding missile was any worse than your fleet-pounding WMG. But it's Scare's RPG, I suppose, so it's up to him. *shrug*

Speaking of which, Scare, are you planning for this to be indefinite? I thought you were gonna end it at Rator III and got all excited because I didn't know RPG's could successfully end in a way that doesn't involve eventually dragging off into inactiveness.

@J-red: Meh, same difference.

And as Supe said, there is no clean war! I mean, you're going to accidentally kill some civvies here and there in your bombing runs and orbital bombardments. War is always cruel, one way or another. Killing a soldier with a phaser, machine gun, machete, electron beam, rocket, WMG, or AM missile is all the same thing; you're killing them, one way or another. By using AM missiles, the civilians died a short death, simply being incinerated on site. I mean, if you kill another side's civilians, that's going to drag down morale as well. Destroying infrastructure, manufacturing, power plants, and any supplies and resources will essentially starve the enemy into submission. Without civilians running anything, even if infrastructure still remains, there won't be enough manpower. And plus, if the Rommies divert troops, it cuts there forces, so yeah. I just kinda made that all up on site because I wanted to make it sound reasonable, even though it really isn't. But don't ruin my beautiful speech! (JK)

....of course there will be unintended deaths during a war, I think Scarecrow's point is that at least Johnnyred made an effort to not kill as many civilians as he would have had he not made an effort....

There's also the fact that I didn't target civilian targets. I only targeted an attacking enemy fleet when my forces' safety was compromised. PXR basically carpet bombed a planet. And killed all life on it.

This is the PCG, we don't attack civilians, and if killing isn't necessary, then we don't.

You may say that's unrealistic. Well, that's nice. But we're the PCG. And we're here to help people, not cause them further harm.

I must concur with J-red and Talmid. The PCG desires to take as little life as possible, and if the masses of civilians are not directly involved with the Romulan war, then they will not be targeted if it can be helped. In situations in which the Romulan citizenry is a decisive foe in a battle, well, then the PCG would regrettably be forced to attack the citizenry. However, we would make sure there wasn't some other way we could attack that would prevent the slaughter of innocents. This makes us different from PXE, MSI, and Yaka: we care about people, and if we can beat an enemy without attacking the enemy's citizens, that's what we'll do.

An example of this kind of thinking is seen near the close of WWII in the Pacific. The Japanese citizenry was fanatically devoted to its armed forces' quest to conquer the world. If the U.S. had not dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, then there would have been an absolutely horrendous invasion of the Japanese mainland in which millions of Japanese citizens, Japanese soldiers, and American soldiers would have been slaughtered needlessly. Truman's decision to drop the atomic bombs on those two Japanese cities caused great death and destruction to the citizenry, but that destruction was not near as great as the destruction and death that would have resulted if American forces invaded Japan. In the end, despite the grief and tragedy, the bulk of the Japanese citizenry was actually spared needless slaughter.

THAT'S the kind of spirit the PCG has. Consider also the fact that I allowed PXR to wipe out Rator III's capital city because 1) most of the citizenry had been evacuated, and 2) the Capital is the seat of the Romulan government. Common sense says that if you want to destroy your enemy, destroy their government.

Wait, that isn't the post PXR had to remove? I thought you were asking him to remove the bombardment of the city.

...was there another post?

All of a sudden my entire life is a lie.

@Talmid, J-red, and Scare: IK. I wasn't saying it was unfair of you guys to tell me to remove it; I was only explaining why PXE will attack civilians and destroy them as well. I'm not complaining either, or at all; rather, I'm merely explaining the original reason of my post.

PXE's viewpoint is tactical, not moral. We will attack anyone and everyone to win, not to uphold a reputation. I probably should write a post on PXE's tactics as well sometime, but I'm too busy [lazy] right now. Anyway, from a strategic standpoint, an attack on civilians will weaken morale, reduce population (for not only military, but economics, manufacturing, food, supplying, etc), destroy infrastructure (specifically any shipyards, factories, fuel refineries, powerplants, hospitals, etc), and create chaos and disorder. Less population means less people to possibly join the military, work in factories, produce supplies, etc. Less infrastructure means less ships, less weapons, less food, etc. Thus, by destroying civilians and civilian targets, PXE is protecting itself, and protecting loss of life for its own people. In effect, PXE's goal in a war is not only to win that war, but to prevent another. Total destruction and extinction/eradication of a population/species will ensure that another war will never again occur.

This was a lesson learned the hard way for PXE during the First and Second Mukaran Wars, where PXE forces were unable to locate all remaining Mukaran nests. Though most were destroyed, several remained, causing the Second Mukara War.

@Supe: I removed the section with the antimatter bombardment. I left the rest (the evac part) in the post. I have yet to type up the next post though.

I'm off for what, a day (or was it two?) and everything goes to chaos. I need to stay on more.  

Okay.

First of all. WOAH THERE! Let's just take this down a notch or two. I could be reading things into this conversation that aren't there, but in my reading of what's posted, I'm getting a considerable amount of anger and frustration. Let's remember that we are all friends here, even if our characters aren't. Please gentlemen, let's talk through this like civilized men. *No one is shouting in caps yet, so that's always a good sign. * And no, I'm not accusing anyone of being uncivilized in this discussion. But we've lit the embers of an all-out flame-war, let's put it out.  


Supe/anyone else *read me * who missed some of what happened.
PXR fired 27 MASSIVE antimatter missiles at Rator III, which wiped out everyone and everything on the surface and up a thousand klicks below. Scare made the GM decision that he wasn't going to allow this. PXR is fine with this, but J-red bringing in the Argo and firing the Wave Motion Cannon has sparked a debate about super weapons and plot killing, as you know.  


Next, let's look at some stats. Stats and other canon info make everything more understandable.

"(Starfleet) General Order 24: An order to destroy all life on an entire planet." - Memory Alpha
This is seen in TOS, Kirk's time, the 2,260's. Well, it's the 2,600's now. And if a single 289 meter Constitution class can do it 340 years ago, then a FLEET of km + long warships certainly could do it now. So that's not a matter of being unrealistic.

"According to the the Kyrian curator Quarren, a photon torpedo with a 25 isoton yield could destroy an entire city within seconds." - Memory Alpha
If one ~3 meter long photon torpedo can do that, than it stands to reason that a salvo of hundred + meter long missiles could wipe out an entire planet of moderate size.

"When outfitted with a gravimetric charge, a photon torpedo could be turned into a gravimetric torpedo. Depending on the yield of the charge, several results could hypothetically be achieved, such as destroying a small planet...." - Memory Alpha
If ONE 2,370's photon torpedo on steroids can destroy a small planet, than 27 100+ meter long mega missiles could not only destroy the SURFACE of a planet, but ALL of it, right down to the core.


So, I believe that, within the canon constructs of this universe, PXR's bombardment of Rator III was completely REALISTIC, in fact, he could have destroyed the entire planet with that kind of fire power. (Assuming that we consider Voyager stuff as canon, because they messed some stuff up. )
HOWEVER: when you are part of a multi-faction task-force, nuking a planet that just had friendlies on it, that is controlled by a faction with the best stealth tech in the galaxy, is SERIOUSLY not cool. You NEED to confirm such plans with task-force leaders, or at LEAST ensure that all friendlies are off of the world first. Yes, PXE has really good sensors, but Romulan's have always been the best at stealth, meaning that friendlies could still have been down there.
Also, destroying all life on a (so far as we know to be) canon capital, of a MAJOR species/faction, is also... not cool.
That said, I do believe that it was completely possible and not noobish or unrealistic to destroy all life within 1,000 klicks of a planet's surface for a 2,600's advanced nation that is basically ancient Sparta *but more capitalist/business based in its income* in space. (Read. "We want, love, live and die for WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!")
However, as I said earlier, Scare is GM and it's up to him. And as staff for this site myself, I think that destroying all life (and rendering uninhabitable) the capital world of a major canon race is.. taking it too far. That said, outside of RP, go ahead and nuke non canon worlds to your heart's content as far as I am concerned. It definitely counts as "Dreadfully cruel to the masses of innocent civilians." As Scare put it. But war is not nice, although we must choose our battles and our targets. PXE's targets are different from the PCG's.  

Which leads me to: what we're fighting for.

The PCG, and PXE, fight for VERY different things. PXE desires absolute, physical victory. If destroying the civilian population is what that takes, then they'll do it and have no trouble sleeping at night; they're goal is to win the physical war.
The PCG on the other hand, not only wants to win the physical war, to maintain/gain tangible power, but also desires to do what is right. The PCG doesn't fight just to win. It fights for what it believes is right. Justice. Liberty. Truth. Grand ideas. And costly ones in war. Admittedly, from a physical standpoint, as long as the PCG remains true to itself at heart, it will always be weaker than groups like PXE in one way. We have rules. We're Batman, and PXE is the Joker. We have rules for a reason. Because we are fighting for the intangible as well as the tangible.
The fighting styles of different factions are going to vary a great deal on this point. Where'as PXE see's enemy assets, the PCG sees noncombatants. The former will pull the trigger on enemy civilians every time. The latter will do everything it can not to.    
Allow me to let Disney do a little talking here.
"Mirage: He's not weak, you know.
Syndrome: What?
Mirage: Valuing life is not weakness.
Syndrome: Oh, hey, look, look, if you're talking about what happened in the containment unit, I had everything under control.
Mirage: And disregarding it is not strength." - Disney Pixar's The Incredibles
Now, I could continue, but that would be getting in to world views, and I think we're worked up enough for now without adding that into the mix. If you want, I can tell you why I personally believe that the PCG believes and acts as it does. But I won't push it on anyone, especially now that we have our hackles up and our weapons and shields hot.  


Next, the Wave Motion Gun attack.
"I PMed Scare my entire plan, from the speech to the WMG blast and specifically held the Argo back so that the Romulans would not be expecting it." - J-red.
Since J-red PMed Scare about this, than Scare, the GM, presumably approved of this plan. Scare? Is this in fact the case? If it's OP/noobish/poor plot work/not allowed by the GM, then let's let the GM deal with it. But if the GM was aware and and okay with it, then, like it or not, the GM has control over this RP, and apart from departure from site rules and playing our characters for us if he doesn't like what we do, he's in charge of what goes in this RP. So, for better or worse for the plot, Scare decides if this is okay or not. Maybe some of us don't like it, I have no problem with it personally. It's strategy. And the Wave Motion Gun does have limitations, such as a shot limit. The Rommies know about this tech and how dangerous it is (they spy on everyone after all) but they didn't prepare for it, so they paid the price for superior planning. By holding back the big gun, J-red got the enemy fleet to cluster together to attack the allied forces, thinking that they were winning. They would have spread out and prevented a clear shot of the WMG if the Argo had dropped in at the beginning of the battle. As it is, we won this fight, or at least escaped it, because of J-red's careful planning. So, so long as Scare gave this plan the green-light, then it's part of the story, and I must say, a good plan.

Rator III played out VERY differently than I was expecting/hoping. My subplot(s) will have to adapt. It was still good, but really quite short to be honest. Our first skirmish with the Empire was much longer/had more written action. So, at risk of getting off topic in the off topic topic, I suggest to Scare that we need him to play at least some of the enemy for us, tell us what they are doing so we can fight back. (Still giving us some freedom to write our own actions and enemy interaction.)

Back on topic,

More stats to support the power of the WMG.
"... they equip the new ship (the Yamato) with a space warp drive, called the "wave motion engine", and a new, incredibly powerful weapon at the bow called the "Wave Motion Gun". The Wave Motion Engine is capable of converting the vacuum of space into tachyon energy, as well as functioning like a normal rocket engine, and providing essentially infinite power to the ship, it enables the Yamato to {redacted to conceal how the Wave Motion Engine allows faster than warp 10 travel, as J-red likes to prevent abuse of the tech]... travel faster than light. The Wave Motion Gun, also called the Dimensional Wave Motion Explosive Compression Emitter... functions by connecting the Wave Motion Engine to the enormous firing gate at the ship's bow, enabling the tachyon energy power of the engine to be fired in a stream directly forwards. Enormously powerful, it can vaporize a fleet of enemy ships with one shot; however, it takes a brief but critical period to charge before firing." - Wikipedia

What's not clear based on quick internet search alone is: how big of an area can it effect? How many enemy ship's can it vaporize in a "fleet"? And, apart from the article, how much has J-red reduced the power of his version to prevent OP-ness?

The above info is just to establish the canon nature of the Wave Motion Gun, a weapon that J-red has been using for YEARS, and is thereby not a new OP toy.

My text question is: "Do the Specters have some form of Wave Motion tech? Because it sure sounds like it to me.



Anyways.
Let's all try to be calm and not accusative here. We'll work through this.

Scare, as GM, a strongly suggest that you make your will clear here as your players have decided that this is very important, and it's a GM duty to work this stuff out. (Actually, I only assume that it is the duty of the GM because it is logical that it should be that way )

Thank God for Dino. This was starting to go flame-war-ish.

@Dino: When you were using the Incredibles quote thing I thought you meant me Mirage. I've never watched Incredibles at all, so give me credit.

ANYWAY (I'm using CAPS ), I wasn't accusing anyone. Let me just make that clear to everyone and anyone if I haven't already. Also, I would also like to say that the previous two posts were not complaining or whining; they were to simply explain why PXE would do that. And, as Scare said in a GM post, I should take it out, so I did, but he also said I may launch a single missile at the city/capital, something I still have to type. (blame school ) I would also like to point out that, though antimatter could in reality actually destroy a planet, PXE's purpose was to destroy all life on it, not to actually destroy the planet. However, this is only a clarification, and I understand that I shouldn't nuke a canon world. (not )

Also, if anyone wants to see the original, it is here (this comes exactly after the section of the post that remains, so you didn't miss anything ). If you don't want to read all that, there's a summary below the spoiler:

Spoiler:

Dino is right; PXE sends twenty-seven antimatter missiles from Lola's-1 and 2. The antimatter missiles strike their respective targets, completely destroying all detectable life on Rator III. So yeah, I kinda did nuke it.

As I said, this was just a clarification-esque post, not a, as Tetra put it, "flame-war inciting" post. And I perfectly understand why it was disallowed.

No hard feelings everyone.

I think I forgot to mention in my previous post, that Scare allowed PXE to fire a single missile at Rator III's capital city. And that I am not angry at PXR for what he did, (my character dealing with PXR's character would be a different story if it had happened as I/my character/my in-universe-self don't agree with the reasons behind it.) My issue is the use of it in RP and how it was handled in dealing with allies/not giving time for allied forces to react and shoot down the missiles. (I'm not trying to flame, just clarify.) I understand that you weren't trying to destroy the entire planet, I was speaking to Scare's earlier OOC post in the actual SoL topic about balance. I was pointing out that in canon terms, your missile attack PXR, were perfectly balanced in my opinion, but that it was a matter of GM approval/working with allies/allowing allies to respond. So, what I'm saying is, your actions weren't unreasonably OP IMO

I was only involved in this because I thought Scare disapproved of PXR destroying the city. I didn't see his planet-wiping post, and I agree that, while it's not unrealistic or even OP, it's a bit too...permanent, I guess, for an important planet. It'd be like blowing up Coruscant in an RP-- sure, maybe you CAN do it, but it's a canonical planet with actual history and stuff. xD It makes sense that Scare would ask him to cut the post, though not for his reasons. And it makes WAY more sense than the city-bombardment, which is what I thought this was all about at first. That's orders of magnitude less questionable than the WMG. xD

...Dino, you tried to censor information, and then cited it? I'm sorry, but you'd make a bad NSA agent. xD *goes to Wikipedia page and fills in the censored information*

I think Jred's WMG bit came across as sort of "meh" because it was rushed, like he said. The fact that he did all that in like a paragraph made it feel like a bit of a deus-ex-machina. xD

I was trying to balance answers with keeping J-red happy with his WMG secrets.

And Ill take that as the highest possible compliment.

And I agree about PXR's bombardment being realistic, but not right for a major world of a major canon faction.

First let me say, that Dino is awesome in more ways than one and should be like the official PCG technician or something. I half feel like he understands WMT more than I do. XD

And now, let me say that if I seemed like I was trying to incite a flame war or that I was getting angry, I apologize, because that was not my intention. If any of my posts seem irritated its probably because I'm writing at night immediately after I return from work, and I'm just tired. (And occasionally frustrated... my job isn't much fun... and there's not climate control.)

Something I didn't think about... though I wouldn't really worry about it at this point. Technically, my away team was on Rator III in the capital when PXR's anti-matter attack hit. Myself, OMEGA Squad, and Adventure Comix should all have been nuked out of existence.

Also, as to what's been said about my post being "meh" again. I wrote that shortly after getting back from work. My typical day is normally from 8 am to 2 am. I get up at 8, see my girlfriend off to work, make her coffee, etc. Then, I get ready and go mow some lawns. Then, do any other chores that need to be done and if I have time, I build or get on here or something. Some weeks I have more time than others, Some I have no time. Then, at 3 I go to work. I finally get off at 11:30 and get back here around 11:45. And go to sleep somewhere around 2 am-3 am. My most in depth and epic post so far has probably been the invasion of Rator III where the Red Daggers and OMEGA Squad/Adventure Comix dropped in to the capital city. All of that was written at work through bathroom breaks or regular breaks. Also, at that point, I had basically been carrying the story... no one else was attacking enemy ships in the atmosphere or attempting to invade the planet.

Also, as to my tactics, if you will note, I continually mentioned the Argo being held back. Over and over. Just for something specifically like this. I did the same with the Aronidite when the fleet first dropped into orbit around Rator III. (Or rather, I continually did not mention it and when referring to the SOL fleet I avoided adjectives such as "entire" so that it seemed like all of SOL jumped in, but the Arondite was held back specifically for that little sneak attack I worked out.

As to the Wave Motion Gun itself. The Wave Motion Gun first appeared on my Creation Lab file "PCG Argo" (I'll be uploading the current Argo sometime this week hopefully) This was one of the first three PCG starships I ever uploaded to the LUCL. (The others being the Texas and the Andromeda) The Wave Motion technology in the series I drew them from is much more powerful than how I have them with the exception of the Wave Motion Engine/Drive. The Wave Motion Engine is capable of far more than FTL travel, in the series, it demonstrates what looks like to me a textbook case of breaking Warp 10, which is why the Argo and any Wave Motion Engine equipped ships can warp great distances with no travel time. (As shown in the series, the Yamato warps from Earth to Mars with no time passed.) The power of the Wave Motion Gun itself has been dialed down. A LOT. If this were in the series, pretty much NO ships would have escaped and at least part of the planet would be missing. The full power of the WMG has never fully been explored. The first time it's used, it destroyed a continent sized floating land mass in orbit around Saturn. Later on, its used to destroy a stanging sun. That's probably the biggest thing its destroyed... most powerful perhaps not... the most powerful thing its ever destroyed was probably a massive fortress thingy.... you'd have to have seen that movie to understand, just before destroying said fortress... It destroyed another sun. (Though an artificial one being used as a weapon). At this point in time, the WMG was at its most powerful. The WMG was capable of firing 6 shots in succession without much drain to the rest of the ship. (Or at least from what I could tell.) Before the six shot, each Wave Motion blast required a ten second intake and charge up. Normally after a blast a WMG requires around a minute or so for power to come back to the rest of the ship and with each WMG shot hull integrity is decreased. Also, it is stated that the WMG's range is well nigh limitless if need be, though the power of the blast is much decreased the further the distance.

My WMG's range is limited (Though I haven't decided to what distance. XD) It can only be fired once in succession. It also requires voice activation by a Council of the Phoenix member in order to be fired. The power has been dialed back much... though it would be enough to tear through multiple spectres that were gathered together. (The WMG was still in the research phase during Fires of War and thus was not used at the time.) The Wave Motion Gun is only used when absolutely necessary and is only equipped (as of right now) on the Argo class (And there are only three, the Argo and two others which will be gifts as soon as the Argo class is officially posted).

The WMG on the Argo also takes up most of the body of the ship... whereas in the case of the Yamato... we have a ship the size of an old earth battleship equipped with a weapon that can split stars... So... yeah.. big difference. Other ships can easily be equipped with Wave Shock Cannons, Wave Motion Torpedoes, Wave Motion Missiles, and Wave Motion Depth Charges... but all of those pale much in comparison to the WMG.

I feel like there was more I had to say... but I'm tired and I can't think. XD

I wasn't saying it was unrealistic, I'm sure there's plenty of stuff to back it up, but it still feels like deus ex machina, no matter how limited. It's like having a machine gun during the Middle Ages, and saying it's limited because you have to have an extra guy to feed the gun belt. xD

...that's gonna start another war, isn't it?

Uhh

AWESOME JRED TECH IS AWESOME

I don't think it's gonna start another war.    However, keep in mind, there are plenty of other super weapons out there.  The Romulans have ships like the Narada (Which while I don't count the new ST series as anywhere close to canon, I do think we should include such an incredible ship into our universe) which is probably pretty close in power to my WMG (perhaps more powerful now that I've actually nerfed the WMGs power.)  Plus there's Spectre (Who, I wouldn't be surprised if their uber cannons were some form of WMG as Dino said)  Plus there's other factions (primarily enemy factions) that have super weapons as well.  It's also no more high powered than Anti-Matter Missiles, though it'd probably take more missiles to do the damage the WMG can.)

As far as realism... technically pretty much none of the PCG-verse is real.    Seriously.  If a ship like the Aquilla attempted to enter orbit of a planet, it'd probably fall apart during reentry thanks to the pull of gravity.  Same goes for any PCG ships with the exception of maybe ones like the Defiant, though I don't think it'd be able to escape the planet's gravity.  A Constitution like ship with nacelle pylons... well... I don't even want to think of what would happen to it.  Like I was saying.... realism... none of us should take it too seriously as far as weapons and tech goes, because in a sci-fi universe, who's to determine what's realistic and what isn't?  What goes in one universe is different in another.  Obviously ours follows primarily the Star Trek universe (And within my stories and RPGs the LEGO Universe one), so things like the Force and Time Lords wouldn't exist.   Realism should be focused on people and how they act and react.

First, let me commend Dino for trying to straighten things out.

Second, let me say that I was not angry nor flaming in my posts (quote me if I'm wrong). Nor do I think that our disagreements amounted to something close to a flame war. It is one thing to angrily disparage another person's RPG tactics, but it's quite another to calmly disagree. Unless I'm mistaken, I wasn't running across any "angry disparaging." Disagreement among friends need not be classified as "flaming" or "anger," although sometimes it can amount to that. When friends discuss disagreements frankly but politely, it can actually help them understand each other and possibly resolve the tension point. Conflict is not bad: what you DO with conflict can be, however.

Third, this whole thing has blown out of proportion. As GM I should have stepped in and stopped this sometime ago, as Dino has pointed out. Let's sum up everything this way:

1) PXR will launch only one antimatter at Rator III's capital because it is common sense to wipe out an enemy's government and because more than one antimatter missile constitutes "cruel and unusual punishment" to the civilian population.
2) What J-red did with the WMG is totally acceptable.
3) Uber-destruction weapons may be used in this RPG, but only by permission of the GM (moi). To use too many super-weapons will destroy the plot I have set up for this RPG.

Let me apologize for any ungrounded frustration that I have contributed to this disagreement. But again, I must say that it is not bad for people to disagree with each other. What people DO with disagreement is what can be bad.

....Wait, Rator III was canon?!

Yeppers.  

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Rator_III

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Rator_III

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Rator_III

I just realized I didn't answer one of Dino's important suggestions.

Re: playing the enemy characters, you're quite right, my friend. As usual, I have not amounted to a very good GM, so your input is always encouraged. I will probably require your occasional correction as I am totally unfamiliar with Romulans, and playing a Romulan Imperial will take some doing.

Also... this is OOC even for the OOC topic... but this is awesome.

J-red- Try OT. I should use my newfound comment-moving powers to move it there. I won't, but I feel I should.

Scare- While it wasn't exactly flame-ish yet, it was going there (or, at least I felt it was ).